The F-22 is far too expensive to field in large enough numbers for the USAF’s needs. The F-22 will have a place, but it will be in limited numbers for special operations where conventional aircraft would be inadequate. What the USAF needs is a good omni fighter design like the F-35. Cheaper to build, logistically easier to keep in the air, and easier to config for specific operations. Apparently the F-22 requires special field repair equipment and about double the personel to repair and keep it flying.
With regard to the Russian fighter. Didn’t Russia start to really push forward with its arms development and territorial expansion during the first Obama administration(Carter)?
By the time they are done with the cheaper F-35 it will be as expensive if not more so than the F-22. And all for a less capable aircraft.
The reason that the cost of the F-35 is being projected as less is because they are still projecting buying them in about twice the numbers that they will likley be bought in, hence a lower unit price.
They cancelled the F-22 when the F-35 was years away from being operational and before we knew what its true capabilities are. The damn plane has not even been certified with sidewinders.
People forget that the F-15s will need to be retired in the next decade due to use and wear, and that even now there are planes that are as good or better than the F-15 that could find their way into an enemy’s hands and be opposing us at some future time, planes like the Sukois SU-27/35, the Eurofighter and French Rafael, and this new plane that the Russians are testing.
Because their potential adversary’s have them. Also its another fighter that they can sell to the world market. Also having such military technology is good for national prestige. Russia has always been a xenophobic nation.
I seen that on the news the other night, perfect timing considering the ass clown just canceled the Raptor program. I don’t think conventional wars are out of the question anymore. I think the US better smarten up fast, two of our biggest potential threats are ever increasing their military strength, while we fight an unconventional war on two fronts and talk about cutting defense programs.
I agree. The US needs to rethink many of its strategic interests. Its about time for the EU to pay for its own security. Afghanistan is pretty much a lost cause. Fight Al Quida and try to stabilize Pakistan. Making a nation out of Afghanistan is like invading Russia. Its been done a couple of times and has never worked. Iraq has a reasonable chance of success if we don’t pull the rug out from under them. Central and South America are either being bought off by Chavez or the Chinese. I think we need to consolidate and reassess our strategy.
F35 is cheaper because of the numbers, and we are not the only ones buying into the program. UK is going to buy quite a few, and Im sure it will be exported.
We need enough F22’s to replace what is being retired. They stopped the program in the most expensive part, and any future ones would be significantly cheaper than the first 100+ that we got. Parts would become cheaper, etc. If it requires more maintenance it requires more maintenance. Im sure people said the same thing when the 1st jets came out, and as they got more advanced…we either go with the future or let the world catch up or surpass us. Russia is sure not going to quit, and either is China.
Well, I am in the Air Force and, regardless as to whether one supports having more F-22s or not, I can tell you that the Air Force (at least the fighter mafia which runs the Air Force) was livid that the F-22 program got shut down. The Air Force cut a large number of personnel to continue funding the program and was not at all happy when it was shut down.
It was expensive because the government ultimately bought only 1/4 of the original number they were planning to buy.
IIRC they plan to roll the airframes into composite formations consisting of recent-mod F-15C’s and F-22’s, with some select squadrons of F-22 only. The jet the Air Force is really banking on is the F-35. That’s where they want to spend their money, IMO.
The Air Force wants F-35s AND F-22s. As of now, the F-35 program is far too big to fail and the Air Force needs to get rid of the thousands of legacy fighters that it has now.
There will be no “composite” squadrons of F-22s and F-15s. The F-15C/D will eventually be completely retired, but F-15Es will continue to fly.
USA, UK, Netherlands, Italy, Turkey, Australia, and Canada are definitely going to purchase F-35s, and Denmark, Israel, Norway, and Singapore will probably purchase them in a few years, as well. I’ve also heard that Taiwan, India, Brazil, Greece, Japan, Finland, and Spain are interested, too.
Im sure people said the same thing when the 1st jets came out, and as they got more advanced…we either go with the future or let the world catch up or surpass us. Russia is sure not going to quit, and either is China.
Makes sense since these are the oldest air frames. The F15E’s are relatively new. What about the F16’s? Are they going to use these as a lower cost alternative to fill the gap in numbers?
The F-16s will eventually be phased out and replaced by the F-35 once we have sufficient numbers. However, you’ll still see F-16s flying around long after we’ve phased out the last F-15, simply because we have three times as many. There will be a “fighter gap” for about a decade or so, but there are no plans to fill it with purchases of F-16s.
It should be noted that we are continuing to fund F-16 upgrades until the F-35s become fully operational.
Just wanted to give my few cents on a couple topics…I don’t really want to debate with most of whats been said because it all is fairly accurate and very relevant let alone dragging this thread off topic talking about budget’s and politics.
From an AF crew chiefs perspective. Its not so much about the weapon as it is about how its employed. I’ve been on more than a few trips down to Edwards specifically to the Muroc test range as well as to a fair share of Red Flags at Nellis. The amount of thought and practice that goes into employment of the current fighters, bombers and Reconnaissance aircraft is huge. Also the development of weapons, detection and counter measures of all kinds. Just like guns its not about how many or how tacti-cool its about training and employment. There’s a lot of other things I could hit on to try and ease minds about how big AF and the military minds are working to stay ahead of the power curve and give us air superiority in any nation we go to but I don’t want to tread in the gray OPSEC area.
One more thing anyone can claim to have stealth. Especially governments looking to climb back on to the global power table. We’ve got a local surplus store that sells radar reflective blankets so I guess he could claim to have stealth. The products on the 22 and 35 that lend them to being “stealth” are a hell of a lot more than just the angles and designs.
However, if anyone is interested in seeing us get new fighters or possibly a new tanker to give fighters gas please write your local congressman/woman on a bi-weekly basis.
It has alot of features the F22 or F35 lack…X-band radar, L-band rear facing radar in the leading edges, and IRST. It also has a nice set of weapons to compliment it.
The F-35 has IRST and the F-22 will soon receive an upgrade that will give it that capability. How the X-band and L-band radar on it competes with the AESA radar of the F-22 and F-35 is up for discussion, but I seriously doubt it’s superior to what we’re fielding now. Export considerations appear to have been key in the design of this aircraft, so they sacrificed a lot to keep costs down.
As for weapons, I don’t really see anything mind-blowing.
There is a lot to the F-22 and F-35 deals. Remember the AF developed the F-22 with the Cold War in mind with the thought of replacing the F-15 on a 1:1 basis. Right now the number of F-22s will not come anywhere near to replacing the F-15 in that ratio.
The AF stopped the buy at 180ish airframes. And Gates was as bigger player in that than Obama ever was. Gates actually sacked the sitting AF Chief of Staff and the Secretary of the AF because they were huge proponents of the program. Gates wanted more ISR and honestly, I don’t blame him because that is very important in OIF/OEF. I think Gates really wants to ensure everything is done to win in Iraq and Afghanistan but I also think he is somewhat short sighted when it comes to future military development.
The F-15 was developed in the late 60s and early 70s and all but the E models were built by about the early to mid 80s. It has reigned supreme for all that time and is now starting to be eclipsed by a new generation of foreign fighters. The F-22 would likely take the title from the F-15 and be the most capable fighter in the world for the next 30 years if bought in large enough numbers…
Not quite that bad. An engine upgrade program for the F-35 has been cancelled. What has me puzzled is the same report stated that the C-17 program is being shit canned. Anyone hear anything about that?? What would replace it?? Would they just keep fielding current platforms??
Russia must not have gotten the memo that we love everyone now.
Seriously, I’d imagine they’re modernizing their forces, and are probably going to export this plane as well if the foreign sales are there. Just my 2 kopecks.
