Hi guys/gals,
It was suggested by my friends at SIGforum that I stop over here to gain more info on getting my second (ever) rifle. They helped quite a bit but it never hurts to seek more knowledge. And I am new to AR’s. My first rifle was a 10/22 which I love. But I want to be able to shoot well over 100 yds and still be very accurate. Bolt guns tend to be to long and heavy for me (I have bad shoulders). So I think an AR is the next logical choice. And it would seem that a 223 would be the next logical caliber choice too. I am looking for an extremely accurate, lightweight, reliable one whichis hopefully under 2k including a decent scope. It will be a while before I can save enough but I want to be as fully educated as I can be before a purchase anyway.
I would love to hear what you think…brands to stay away from, building my own vs stock, piston vs carbine barrel twist 1/7 vs 1/9.
Thanks in advance I look forward to hearing what you think. Unfortunately I do not have someone around to show me these things so it is up to me with help from you…
p.s. it will be used for target shooting and defense
Quickly though a Colt 6920 would work well for you. If you want something similar but with a little nicer barrel the Noveske N4 Lite is available, too.
1/7 works with a wider variety of ammo than 1/9 including 70 grain and up rounds which most match ammo is.
Just my personal opinion but stay away from the “kit guns”, DPMS, Olympic, Model 1, Del-Ton, and a few other of the “bargain” brands. They cost less but you get a lower quality product. Besides Colt’s are going for the cheapest right now they have in a long time, and the small price difference is more than worth the step up in quality. In the past 30 days they have gotten down into the $1000-1100 range when 6-10 months ago they were $1600+.
BCM is also a very good company to check out.
I would HIGHLY recommend a 6 position collapsible stock for you, since you say you have bad shoulders, the adjustment will help.
Personally, for you I would recommend a mid length gas system, 16" carbine… It just so happens that at the beginning of 2010 BCM is supposed to come out with a “lightweight” version of their mid length as well, so I would check those out.
Welcome to the forum! I suggest reading as much as you can, as far as advice on a rifle setup it will help us to know what you want the rifle to do.
Is it going to be for NRA service rifle type matches? Is it going to be for 3-gun? Just for fun? A possible defense weapon?
I also recommend a collapsable stock for you, and I’d go with a mil spec reciever extension(buffer tube) that way you aren’t limited in your stock choices.
LMT and Daniel Defense are putting out very high quality lower recievers for a decent price.
If you want an accurate lightweight upper built, or even a complete rifle get ahold of C4IGrant here on the forums, he is a very knowledgable guy and builds rifles that hold a super reputation.
think a Noveske SS bbl with a Vtac/troy free float tube would do you well
The lightest weight AR would be a stock Colt 6920 for under $1200 these days, or Daneil Defense M4 for a little more, which includes a sights, vertical fore grip and a rifle length Daneil Defense Lite Rail, get an Aimpoint C2 for around $400, a light mount for the front site base (for the Colt) and a surefire 300X light for around $200, then ammo and training, as the funds become available. You might want to swap stocks for a Magpul CRT or ACS, then add the additional rubber pad to reduce the impact on your shoulders, again, as funds become available. Join one of the Regional Training Groups on this Forum, to get you some basic carbine training from other experienced members in your area. https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=128
I would also look at a Bushmaster Carbon-15. My buddy got one a year ago and I tried not to like that little rifle but it won me over after a couple trips to the range. Lightweight due to the composite receivers and thin barrel, extremely accurate with any ammo we tried - and 100% reliable right out of the box. And a very smooth trigger with little creep. My only reservation about the C-15 now is long term durability but he hasn’t had a single problem so far. The composite material has taken a few bumps and bruises with no sign of problems.
Anyway, definitely look at one in the store and compare the way it points and handles vs. other ARs, I think you’ll be impressed.
How many is a couple? Was it ever anything other than target shooting/plinking?
“extremely accurate with any ammo”
What’s extremely accurate? What ammo did you try?
“100% reliable right out of the box”
How many rounds have been through it and in what type of enviornment? How long has he had it?
Those are all some pretty hefty claims, can you clarify a bit, if the OP only intends to go plink at the range a few times a year I’m sure the bustmaster crap-15 will do just fine, if they imtend to be serious about training and possibly rely on the gun for SD, your advice is crap
I just bought a Daniel Defense XV carbine for $999 from Clyde Armory and I’m absolutely loving it! I can’t recommend it highly enough, and if you buy a Daniel Defense rifle before Dec 31 you get a free $250 “Black Fund Card” with which you can buy all kinds of great Daniel Defense accessories.
The BCM 16" midlength rifle from G&R Tactical is a great value $1134 and is probably the best midlength rifle for the price. Arguably, midlengths are a little more reliable and a little less harsh on their components than a carbine length rifle.
And, if you don’t want to spend that kind of money for a fully mil-spec rifle, you can get a S&W M&P 15A carbine from G&R Tactical for $850. Additionally, right now S&W is having a promotion where you get 5 free 30-rd PMAGs when you buy one of their rifles.
Just to add: For quality control, take a look at the “Chart” and stay away from any weapon/manufacturer right of center, and those that are not listed.
Colt 6520 might satisfy many of your requirements. The handle can be removed and a rail can be welded on top of the receiver for a scope. It would give you one of the lightest overall weights. For slightly more money and less hassle a 6920 is another good option.
For best value and current prices Colt is really a hard choice to beat though DD with the Black Card is similarly an excellent deal.
You’ll save yourself a lot of questions if you don’t get too bogged down beyond those two options.
Basing a recommendation on a sample of one where that same sample has been proven unreliable and of, at best, questionable quality I would hesitate recommending it even for “just plinkin’.”
If weight is that much if a concern then there are many available and proven options out there that would serve well.
To the OP, most of the suggestions you have received regarding BCM, LMT, DD, Colt, etc is good advice. Read, read, read when it comes to information here. You will be well served by it.
You can get a very reliable and defense worthy gun without killing your budget.
Not a big fan of the Colt 6520, or any other rifle without a removable carry handle or flat top receiver.
If an individual at any time wants to use any kind of optics or is unhappy with the rear sight, that individual should get a rifle with a flat top receiver.
The 6920 is a great suggestion, though. $1150 at Code 4 Sales.
The BCM mid length linked above w/ DD Omega rail would still leave $600 for an optic and accessories w/in our budget. You could just get the rifle and 5 mags first and shoot it w/ irons while you save for optic and decide what else to put on it.
That rifle w/ irons plus a mounted flashlight is all you really need for defense use and would be light, handy and accurate.
Noveske N4 light, Colt 6920, DD VX…all great choices. The DD XV with the $250 gift card is an excellent value.
I thought maybe I had missed something so I went back three times and re-read Quentin’s post. I didn’t see where he made any hefty claims, just simple observations. He just said, take a look at one and see how ya like it. To call his advice “crap” is a little rude if not a sign of arrogance. I may be old school, but manners shouldn’t be dead among “real” men.
C’mon, I said it won me over after a couple times out. He’s had it a year as I said and to clarify I’ve been out with him dozens of time. He’s had it out many, many more times. I’m not going to give a full review since it’s not on topic to turn this into an argument over a single rifle but the C-15 definitely is not crap. I did say I had reservations on long term durability but it certainly is an option for people who need a lightweight rifle. As far as ammo I’ve seen about 500 rounds of 52, 55 and 62gr fired from it using about 15 magazines. No malfunctions and he’s fired much more and said no issues at all. Pretty good for crap.
“Crap” probably wasn’t the appropriate word for the poster to use for the Bushmaster. It’s a lower tier rifle, so, relatively speaking, it’s inferior a ton of other brands and it’s pretty near the bottom of the pile when it comes to ARs. The manufacturer intentionally ignores doing things that would increase its reliability and performance, such as not properly staking the carrier key and castle nut, and not using an F-marked FSB for rifles with flat-top receivers.
So, right out of the box, you’re going to need to spend money on the Bushmaster to buy an extractor upgrade kit and front sight post, and get the carrier key and castle nut staked, in order to bring it even somewhat up to par with an Armalite, which still isn’t saying much.
The fact of the matter is that you can get a much better rifle from Smith & Wesson, Daniel Defense, or Charles Daly for the same or lower price than what you paid for the Bushmaster.
wasn’t trying to be rude, just speaking plainly, at least as much as is possible on the web.
500 rds is hardly a break in on a serious carbine. Pat Rogers has T&E guns with thousands of rounds through them, a particular BCM mid length with over 20,000 through it
gotm4s’ “project featherweight” comes in at 5.43 lbs with a RDS
Another very informative, inteligently written and well thought out write up on building an AR on a budget that will serve you very well: http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/25301.html
rob_s is a smart guy who gives sound advice on carbines it would behoove everyone to read his articles
Also to the OP, if you are going for accuracy, stay with a direct impingement upper
you also mentioned a decent scope, and that you want to be able to shoot past 100 yds. How far out are you wanting to shoot?
I highly recommend becoming proficient with iron sights before moving onto a scope, especially considering the cost of quality scopes.
