I have always shot one handed with a slight cant that allowed for a natural extension of my arm from a fighting stance. My wrist stays naturally in line with my forearm. I almost lock out my elbow, I ride my thumb high (which with a glock helps by adding lateral pressure, kind of a wedge on top, also is my natural position from the draw allowing easy marrying of my support hand), and I use non-fingertip pressure to close up my grip laterally (slight gap on knuckle side if applying only forward to back strong hand pressure).
This may be hard to picture and it is very difficult to put into words but this shooting technique has been honed over time and I am a very good one handed shooter and am comfortable with strong and support hand only reloads and malfunctions (and the many methodologies to accomplish these).
I heard someone say something about how unnatural it seems to shoot on a cant and how it is confusing for a brain used to track sights up and down. This got me thinking and I decided to try and shoot without a cant. I quickly realized that to go from a slight cant to a neutral cant required dropping my elbow down to maintain wrist/forearm alignment. Feels a bit unnatural (especially support hand since I am eye dominant on my strong side) but that may just be because I only have a few hundred rounds down range doing this. I have found that my recoil control actually improved (possibly since the recoil impulse goes more directly to my shoulder, still thinking about this). Also, my sight tracking became much easier. Straight up and down is much easier to track than angles, especially for folks who are not strongly one eye dominant.
My final issue is elbow bend. For some reason if I extend my arm out to near lockoutwith a neutral cant, my trigger control diminishes (down and right, never happened with my old technique). So I started maintaining a slight bend (downwards) in my elbow. This feels just about right but looks weird to me. I can get my cadence down to about .35 seconds per shot inside a 8 inch circle at 7 yards. A little slower with my support.
My question is, what are the new theories on one handed shooting? What have you as instructors been teaching or from the student perspective, what have you been taught recently? I significantly improved my already respectable one handed shooting ability with some minor tweaks and it makes me curious to know what else is out there (or if what I am doing is counterproductive in ways I don’t recognize). Is the neutral cant preferred now? With a neutral cant and elbow down, how much bend in the elbow is recommended (or is near lock-out taught?).
I know instructors are a diverse crew but some thoughts would be appreciated. I hope my post wasn’t too tough to follow.
P.S. I spend at least half of my shooting one handed, I have always felt that once basic two hand fundamentals are mastered, this is necessary. Especially since the modern two hand grip allows us to cheat trigger control quite a bit. I’ve seen trigger control issues creep out of very good shooters when they are forced to shoot one hand and especially under stress.
Ive been doing quite a bit of one-handed stuff lately, so I am interested in replies too.
In general, I get best results with straight vertical orientation, firmly locked wrist, and nearly locked elbow. Last time I timed it, it was about 0.7 splits at 3x5 / 7 yards. I’ve tried bending elbow, but haven’t found benefits. I have also experienced a stoppage or two with “non-rigid” technique.
However, with weak hand my front sight acquisition during presentation is very slow unless I cant my gun. Making a choice between better control on followups vs faster first shot, I chose latter.
So I ended up with vertical hold with strong hand, canted with weak hand, somewhat bladed stance for both (not as important for sho), very locked wrist, nearly locked elbow and very aggressive lean forward. Have to have a very firm grip which of course slows down trigger finger speed, but this seems like unavoidable compromise.
If you are looking for “the way”, I think you’ve found it and that is what works best for you. Physics may dictate some things but isn’t the final answer effectiveness?
I should have clarified that when I say bent elbow, I didn’t mean an exaggerated amount. I bend it only slightly, about as much as when I shoot two handed (I don’t lock out, I raise my elbows slightly to increase top pressure).
But prior to this, when I shot one handed with a cant, I fully extended. In my head, I guess I thought that since I didn’t have another arm helping me manage recoil, I would rather rely on skeletal (locked out) vs muscular (bent).
As I said, now that I am shooting with a neutral cant, I seem to have better trigger control with a slightly bent (down) elbow, rather than skeletal lock (again, elbow down). I need more range time to ascertain how well each manage recoil management for me but I will take superior trigger control over marginal increases in recoil control. I just don’t understand why I had good trigger control locked out when canted and not so much locked out with a neutral cant. Possible just an issue of getting more rounds down range but I think I will end up sticking with slightly bent wrist neutral cant (comfortable and good recoil control).
You bring up a good point about support hand shooting for a right handed right eye dominant shooter. Getting natural alignment without a cant is impossible since the gun lines up on the other side of the body. I need to decide whether to maintain my cant for support side shooting or to allow my wrist to be out of alignment with my forearm as I drop my elbow and use a neutral cant. Maybe a compromise where I drop my elbow similar to my strong arm and then use a lesser cant rather than pull my wrist outwards (left) to allow natural alignment of my wrist and forearm. Again, more range time called for.
Finally, I don’t understand what people mean when people talk about locking their wrist when shooting one handed. If you rotate your hand at your wrist clockwise in circles, then the circumference of the widest possible circle represents lock out points. For example, when shooting two hands, we lock our support hand wrist by pointing our fingers forward and downward as much as possible. This allows a natural stop point for the gun after a shot is fired. I don’t understand how you can lock a wrist for one hand shooting unless you are bending your elbow like crazy. Locked means that in one direction, the wrist (and hence the gun) can not move any further. Genuinely curious.
Thanks for the post and hopefully some other knowledgeable folks will be able to post their experiences with instructors or, if they are instructors, what they teach.
No one is looking for “the way.” But shooting is an evolutionary process. The teacup grip works just fine and is honestly way more comfortable than the modern grip. BUT, recoil control is diminished because that grip is the practical equivalent of one hand shooting. Doesn’t mean you can’t shoot accurately, just that follow up will be slower. So we evolve and over time come to a grip that is not the most comfortable and many shooters have a difficult time adapting to because it allows us better recoil control.
That’s just one example, in shooting we evolve our techniques to increase effectiveness. It is possible that every tweak will not work for every shooter. Also, every shooter will eventually have to make decisions based on their body type (hand size, strength, etc…).
Finally, as for the best way, you’re right, I think I have found what works best for me given my knowledge base. The reason I am asking is there may be knowledge out there that I have not been exposed to and could give me something else to try as I evolve my one handed shooting grip. For example, as YVK pointed out, there is a difference between strong and support hand regarding grip if you are one eye dominant. That gave me some food for thought and I have a decision to make based on range time and personal preference. That kind of thing helps, your post, not so much. I know where you’re coming from and I truly mean no offense but “it’s best because it works for you” is a silly thing to say. As for effectiveness being the true measure, I agree. But how do you know that there isn’t something out there for you to try that can increase your effectiveness? This type of thinking leads to closed mindedness and stagnation.
Same principle as in last sentence. I want to avoid any rotational movement in my wrist so the gun doesn’t flop around. Of course and as you pointed out, you can’t lock it forward to the same extent we lock the support hand with two-handed shooting. So, maybe the term lock is misleading. What I do is to exert forward and down tension (same way we do with support hand), but don’t allow sights out of alignment. I feel that this tension stabilizes my wrist.
At the last Vicker’s class one segment we ran one handed. Literally everyone on the line was shooting canted. He stopped the class. Called B.S. on what we’ve all been taught in the past and instructed to go vertical hold.
Ever since then my strong and weak handed shooting has improved dramatically. And I’ve continued to run these single hand drills periodically since then.
Hackathorn, like Vickers, teaches the gun vertical for many of the same reasons already stated here. So does Mac. A lot of students complain about it being less comfortable at first, but their improvement in accuracy quickly quiet the protests. For me personally, I point the elbow toward the ground a bit more and put a little more bend in it than I do while shooting two handed. This gives me the best results personally, but everyone is different.
Can you elaborate on what LAV said about making the gun more vertical as far as technique? Especially concerning OSHO shooting?
With SHO, my gun stays vertical, but with OSHO, I tend to cant the gun to pick up my sights faster with my dominant (right) eye. My accuracy and POI definitely suffers when I cant, so I am looking for a better way, and will be working on being more verticle.
In two classes I took with LAV he never explained why, neither did PMac during his class. I assume it comes from their unit’s experience.
I also remember that there was no timer involved with WHO in their classes, one could take all the time needed to pick up the sight picture. All they were concerned was to get good hits.
Most people would agree that no one instructor emphasizes one handed shooting as much as Bill Rogers does. Some say he overemphasizes it. He also puts all of his stuff on timer, and on very tight time demands. He teaches an inward cant with WHO to get sights under a dominant eye.
I think most good instructors will be able either to rationalize their way or back it up by great shooting. I think most good students should be able to understand advantages of each approach and, if not one is truly better, then find an acceptable compromise.
Basically and simply his point was there was no reason to alter an aiming technique from two handed to one handed. You don’t cant the pistol two handed so why would you do so one handed? I don’t think he really said much more about it as no one questioned it.
I just stood there thinking back to years upon years of LE range instruction preaching to cant the gun. But the results speak for themselves (from what I’ve shot here, which you obviously can’t see.)
Initially that day on the range in Iowa it did feel alien compared to what I’d been taught over and over. But give it some range time and rounds and I promise you you’ll see the difference play out.
Anyway when you do it you will. When I mentioned it back home it was pretty much blown off and I’m the only one online firing vertical.
I’m also the only one that shoots a consistent and effortless 100%.
Thanks for the follow up guys. Did some dry fire last night and worked on some OSHO. Surprisingly, it wasn’t all that weird to keep it vertical, at least not like I thought it would. It’s still natural for me to cant, but easy enough to correct. The real test will be at the range.
I was a pretty good bullseye shooter at one time, that discipline is obviously weapon ‘erect’ for precision.
The only reason that I would forsee shooting one-handed in a SHTF situation is 1) I’m using one hand to drag someone to safety; 2) the long gun is down and I’m still manipulating it in transition; 3) I’m hit; 4) I’m fighting with one hand.
In those circumstances I’d be most concerned with gross accuracy rather than precision, followup shots and not malfunctioning the gun. I shoot SHO and WHO canted for those reasons.
Physiologically it seems to me that we don’t naturally grasp vertically, if you are punching someone I postulate that you are working your shoulder and arm the way it was designed, what is your wrist orientation at the punch’s end, canted or vertical?
Obviously precision will be enhanced with the weapon oriented vertical rather than canted slightly, but I don’t feel that absolute precision is the driving force in the one-hand shooting we are speaking of.
A previous poster mentioned Rogers, about 50% percent of his course is shoot using one hand. As mentioned he favors inward cant of the weapon. When you are shooting his reactive plates on his time constraints you get a feel for what works and canting the pistol SHO or WHO works for me.
Look into Roger’s Shooting School Elijay GA, it will be worth your time and money.
There is a time for precision, and there is a time for speed. I don’t think anyone has ever had to LEARN how to shoot faster. Precision, with a handgun, is a whole different ballgame. Precision WITH speed is what most (at least those who have a goal) will train for.
I apparently don’t have your magic 8-ball to know when I will or won’t use SHO/OSHO or in what situation, so if I train my level of competency to be “good enough”, then I would most likely find myself utterly lacking when bullets are flying and I have sweat, blood, or some other distraction imparing my fighting ability.
A few months back, I was in the same situation. Conflicted with multiple disciplines on shooting one handed.
It was NEVER natural for me shooting with the sights canted at 45 degrees as what Yeager or Suarez schools taught. We (I am at least) are used to seeing sight at a 90 degree angle.
The reason for 45 degrees is exactly like you said, it’s anatomically natural. However, it is not natural to see the sights as so. So which position fits?
Kyle Defoor recommends shooting one handed elbows slight bent, sights at 90 degree. Why? Because we are used to seeing sights that way (unless you is a gangsta) and recoil management. I found 45 degree one handed shooting made recoil management a b*tch. Sights go way up and to the left if you are right handed.
Sure, it may be natural to cant the gun at a 45 degree angle when fighting one handed. However, at a recent Southnarc AMIS class, I found this to be moot. Several FOF evolutions proved it. After practicing countless rounds and hours sights up elbows slightly bent down, it was completely natural for me to press out, shooting on the move with sights at 90 degrees.
Muscle memory does wonders…
As well, I saw my sights about 90% of the time when shooting on the move. Focus on the front sight, imposed on center mass of what is available. You shoot much more accurately, with less rounds. Practice seeing the front sight go up, to the left and back down between the rear sights.
Distilling what I have been taught by Bill Rogers, Manny Bragg and Robert Vogel for shooting one hand at speed – keeping the pistol vertical is better for recoil control, but cant the pistol the minimum necessary to get the sights under your dominant eye. Aggressively prep the trigger so you have minimum trigger travel and weight to work through, minimizing the opportunity to disturb your sights. Lock up as hard as possible at the shot since you don’t have the support of your second hand.
If I have a preference it is a verticle hold, however like many things there is a time and a place for alternate techniques. Learning to shoot a weapon canted can also be due to circumstance or situation and knowing how to do it well is a good idea. If we can see a need to possibly shoot a rifle, shotgun or pistol canted with two hands it reasonably stands that this need may be just as possible one handed.
Having said that in my albeit more narrow scope of necessity and those I teach / train may very well find themselves shooting one handed from behind a shield. Unless if you have orangutan length arms shooting with a one handed canted hold becomes crucial skill.
If you watch Jason Falla shoot the 10-8 standards on Youtube you will see he shoots with a very slight cant weak hand and vertical strong hand. I end up doing the same thing.
