I’m shopping for my first pistol (started off in this hobby as a shotgun shooter). It’ll be used mostly as a range toy, with a few “tactical pistol” shooting events at my local club mixed in.
I’ve just about ruled out purchasing anything striker-fired, including the Glock and M&P, because I’m concerned about being able to holster it safely, and think that being able to have my thumb on a hammer while I re-holster is probably a good thing.
I’m not going to be able to CCW whatever I buy (Illinois resident), and 90% of the time I’ll won’t be drawing out of a holster.
Am I being too concerned about the safety aspect here?
That’s really something only you can decide. Personally speaking, I carry a striker-fired gun every day. I’m just careful about where I carry it, how I carry it, and what stuff I could have on that could find its way into the trigger guard. The hammer-fired guns do allow a larger margin for error in that one aspect of handling, but whether that’s worth other tradeoffs is something you’ll have to decide on your own.
You will run into varying opinions on this subject. Well-informed folks can and do disagree about such personal matters as how much risk to accept in their endeavors. Like the other posters said, this is really up to you.
For me I went with Glocks but added Cominolli thumb safeties to them. You could do this or buy M&Ps with the factory thumb safety. But I am leery of advising folks to use a handgun with a thumb safety for protection unless they have lots and lots of well-ingrained muscle memory to help them remember to deactivate that safety.
My concern with striker-fired guns was during reholstering and also putting the gun into the nightstand at night and retrieving it in the morning (or God forbid retrieving it at “0 dark thirty” after being awakened by a sound that might or might not be an intruder).
My four Glocks are always loaded and always have a rd in the chamber. I carry IWB at the 3 o’clock position, and always train from my carry holster.
Regarding reholstering a striker-fired gun you could train yourself to always clear the holster by feel or by sight prior to reholstering. Clearing the holster by sight is difficult to do under very low light, and also difficult to do in very bright sunlight because of shadow. Clearing by feel works in all lighting conditions, but may require (depending on carry method) that you shift your gun to your weak hand so that you can use your strong hand to clear the holster.
FWIW, I plan to give appendix carry a try with a striker-fired handgun…but I’m laying down some ground rules to prevent blowing my wedding tackle off. I’m also not going to take it through something like a training course so as to minimize the opportunity for idiocy to result in blowing my wedding tackle off.
Do you seriously think that you cannot trust yourself to safely holster a handgun each and every time? Do you mean to say that you cannot guarantee that your finger is off the trigger and that you have verified there is nothing in the holster or in the way of the holster that could snag the trigger?
You have all the time in the world to holster a handgun. There is no need to rush and shoot yourself because your finger was on the trigger or your shirt got caught up in the trigger. In fact, since you will only be playing gun games, where the pistol is unloaded and verified so every time before you holster, where’s the risk?
To be honest, I prefer to master my tools rather than let my doubts limit what I can do or use.
Like others have said it’s ultimately up to you as far as what you’re comfortable with.
That said, I think the overwhelming evidence points to this being a non-issue for the MANY folks out there who carry striker fired handguns daily without incident as long the basic tenants of firearm safety are followed.
I carry my walther PPS daily in a leather IWB and I just make sure that I visually and physically verify that the holster is clear before holstering.
really? are you suggesting that ND’s never occur when holstering striker fired pistols?
the OP stated that this was going to be his first pistol. he’ll have a pretty steep learning curve ahead of him before he becomes a “master of his tool”.
at the very least, his concern is well placed. you obviously have a lot of experience but I wouldn’t let that color my recommendations to a beginner…
Your “huge” number of NDs is an exaggeration, plain and simple. If you have any kind of stats to prove me wrong, please post them. I’ll gladly eat crow but I doubt that I will have to.
The majority of people shooting themselves with striker fired handguns appeared to be cops and only back in the day when such pistols were new. I think pretty much everyone got the picture by now.
The “newbie” angle doesn’t work either. The OP, while new to handguns, is by his own admission a competent shotgunner. Shotguns, having single action triggers virtually universally, demand even more trigger discipline than striker-fired handguns. If he can handle a shotgun without shooting himself, he can handle a handgun the same way.
I carry AIWB with an M&P and while at the range (because I don’t shoot anywhere else) I look and reholster very slowly while holding my cover garments away from the holster itself. If I ever catch my self not looking I’ll know I’m getting too damn comfortable for my own good.
I don’t think you understood what I wrote. I didn’t say there were a huge number of ND’s.
I said that "a huge number of ND associated with reholstering a striker fired pistol is that a piece of clothing or other non-finger object item snags the trigger".
this I’ll stand by…
and I wouldn’t be too quick to throw the “stats” challenge around lest I may you to show me yours…
in any case, I’m sure any stat you can find will show the incidence of ND’s while reholstering hammer fired guns to be considerably less than striker fired, which is what we’re talking about.
but that’s not the point. the OP said he was getting his first pistol - not that he was a newbie. so, he’s a great shotgunner… what does that have to do with safely handling a pistol?
it’s a different manual of arms - I shot trap and skeet for many years and all of my guns had safeties on them. when’s the last time you put a shotgun in a holster on your hip?
While I see other objects getting in the trigger guard as a possible variable, it’s really not likely, and honestly how many times are you holstering and re-holstering a gun? I certainly don’t store my guns in the holster, but when I holster up in the morning i always chamber check, keep my finger off the safety, and insert in holster. It doesn’t come out until i get home for the day.
As far as the safeties go, all of my carry guns have thumb safeties, but i’d be perfectly fine (mentally) carrying something without a safety. I prefer the thumb safeties because of how i like to grip the gun.
I don’t think the issue here is hammer fired versus striker fired as you can get both with manual safeties if you prefer. And with either, if the safety is off, and something pulls the trigger, you’re getting a bang. I’ve read above people saying they ride the hammer when holstering their hammer fired guns, and I guess that’s an option. But if it’s a DA/SA gun, you’d have to be pushing pretty hard to overcome an average 10lb DA trigger pull.
I believe that 99.99% of the time the gun isn’t going off unless you pull the trigger. In my eyes, if your concern is towards having an AD/ND because you got a striker fired pistol instead of a hammer fired, then you’re addressing the wrong issue. The firearm itself is sound, negligent discharges happen when the end user is negligent, and causes the firearm to go off. If you’re going to be negligent, then you’re going to be negligent with a striker or a hammer.
If you’re that concerned about being negligent, then look at firearms with manual safeties. But realize that you’ll need to train to remove that safety as a second nature in case you ever have to use your firearm in self defense.
To reply to the OP. I don’t know that you are going to find some magical level of safety with a SA with a safety, DA/SA, DAO, or striker fired handgun. It kind of reminds me of the people that come in to gun stores saying they need a gun with a safety because they have kids. Does that make since to you? It is pretty much the same thing you are saying/ implying. Truth be told if you handle any firearm with less care than you should it really is not going to matter what kind of action you have. Most NDs would have happened regardless of the action type. There are always times that a safety may save you from recklessness or complaciency, but that is more than likely the exception rather than the rule. I believe you are doing yourself and everyone around you a disservice by expecting a safety or action type to keep you from making a mistake. It really doesnt matter to me what brand, type, or caliber you choose I just ask you learn the way to handle it properly. If you train yourself to use and carry a weapon properly the concerns you have now will be pretty irrelevent.
If you’re in a training course, a lot. I do it once or twice a day on average as my M&P goes from holster duty to night stand duty.
I learned a long time ago, however, to reholster in a slow, deliberate fashion. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve seen at classes who reholster like they are trying to drive the weapon through somebody’s skull…especially when they are frustrated. If you haven’t done it a lot or really watched people do it a lot it’s natural to underestimate just how easy it is to foul up.
I used to be in the “you have to be an idiot to shoot yourself while reholstering!” camp until I got my hash settled by people who were smarter and more experienced than me quite some time ago. I heeded their advice…and on one definite occasion I narrowly avoided putting a round through my leg because something got caught in the trigger guard of my M&P as I reholstered.
And with either, if the safety is off, and something pulls the trigger, you’re getting a bang. I’ve read above people saying they ride the hammer when holstering their hammer fired guns, and I guess that’s an option. But if it’s a DA/SA gun, you’d have to be pushing pretty hard to overcome an average 10lb DA trigger pull.
By applying positive pressure on the hammer as you reholster you make it impossible for the trigger to be pulled. This, believe it or not, has saved people’s bacon before. If people meet resistance when going in the holster for some reason their dominant instinct is to press harder. With a hammer fired gun using positive pressure on the hammer, pressing harder won’t result in a trigger pull.
I believe that 99.99% of the time the gun isn’t going off unless you pull the trigger. In my eyes, if your concern is towards having an AD/ND because you got a striker fired pistol instead of a hammer fired, then you’re addressing the wrong issue. The firearm itself is sound, negligent discharges happen when the end user is negligent, and causes the firearm to go off. If you’re going to be negligent, then you’re going to be negligent with a striker or a hammer.
I’m not trying to pick on you here, but this is exactly the attitude I’d like to see done away with in the gun world. People speak as if there are two classes of people handling guns, safe people and negligent people. It’s much closer to the truth to say that people are people. Part of being a person means you are vulnerable to screwing up. If that screwup happens to involve a firearm, the odds of severe injury or death are pretty high. The next ND/AD could be ours. It can happen to me. Therefore it behooves me to remain switched on when handling firearms and to consciously develop thoughtful handling and carry practices based on a realistic assessment of the weapon I am dealing with and the potential vulnerabilities it brings to the table.
Striker fired guns with a ~ 5.5 pound trigger and no manual safety are safe for carry and daily use.
BUT…
The margin for error on such a weapon is considerably smaller than on one with a heavier trigger and/or a manual safety.
New and inexperienced gun owners will never realize this if people don’t discuss these issues sensibly.
As others have alluded to, it’s a training issue. If you are not familiar with a certain weapon system, you need to practice with it, and often, including drawing and firing from your favorite holster, until you can build the muscle memory to become comfortable with it. A combo of drawing and dry firing with snap caps at home, then with live fire at the range, will go along way towards building that confidence. A couple of pistol classes for some quality instruction, is also a good idea.
i think its absolutely possible to get something stuck in the trigger of any gun while holstering…
the last time I took a class it was a blazing hot day…
i was wearing a button down short sleeve shirt as a cover garment…I had a t-shirt on underneath it, tucked into my pants…at the time I was carrying a G17 in a C-TAC IWB…
on several occasions as I would go to reholster I would notice that my T-shirt would have become untucked during movement and firing drills…and could easily become snagged on the gun during reholstering…in fact it was more prevalent around the holster because of the natural “gapping” that occurs in your pants around the holster when it is IWB
because I too am a fan of slow, deliberate re-holstering it never became an issue because I would take the time to positively ensure my holster was clear before re-inserting my gun
but if I had been just pounding the gun back into the holster I could have absolutely gotten my t shirt caught in the trigger guard…
having said all that…I also carry a striker fired pistol every day and feel fine with it…its a matter of awareness and diligence…EVERY time…
I absolutely understand the feeling. I’ve been carrying in my AIWB looper w/ a G19 for the past 6 months and I’m definitely “careful” when I reholster, I got the looper because I really appreciate the pros of carrying in that position (especially not needing as large a shirt to CCW effectively) and wanted to give it a try. Since my G19 is the largest of my carry guns I decided to give it a go. If I decide to carry AIWB in the long term I’ll switch to a hammer fired gun (probably dak or lem) for increased safety as the more often you do something the greater the %risk in the long run.
The recent threads on AD/ND’s and shooting themselves reminds me that you really need to be aware and careful. It is true accidents can happen to anyone.
To the OP…I think you’re making responsible considerations, I too remember 6 years ago when I began shooting / carrying pistols that I thought the Glock and similar SFA guns were more scary and less safe, I remember looking at the first glock that I rented at an indoor range (1st time firing pistol and lots of booms going off) trying to decide what my first pistol would be and thinking that I had to “really” be careful so as to avoid an accident. but after carrying them and training diligently that fear/feeling subsided. So to throw in my .02 I don’t think it is unwise to start with a SFA pistol especially as they are very simple to use and easy to learn to shoot, but if you are more comfortable with a hammer fired pistol that is absolutely fine, but remember that accidentally holstering a cocked DA pistol / SA pistol off safe is more dangerous than holstering a SFA pistol. From the description of your uses of the pistol it sounds like you will be equally well served by either platform just remember to use good and safe gun handling all around.
Excellent post, JDub. We’re all trained to carefully drive cars and drink milk, yet accidents happen and glasses get spilled. People who think that they can train away things like attention span and other shortcomings of the human condition are only kidding themselves.
I have been debating the pros & cons of the different systems for 30 years now. It is a double edged sword. The easier the first shot is, the less safe the gun is generally. I thougt the hk p7 was going to be the solution, but ended up with a sig 226 da/sa. Lately I’m leaning towards a s&w m&p with safety. The problem with safeties is they tend to be on when you think they are off & vice versa. If I make the change, there will be lots of dry firing to build muscle memory for flicking that safety off.
