What experience have you had with “Steel Targets” for training purposes, and what suggestions do you have on what to get.? I need to know if the targets you’ve used in the past can be shot at with FMJ’s, and the closest you dare try this. Who are the best quality manufacturers?
I’m thinking that I want a smaller target than the IPSC/ IDPA types. (Aim small, Miss Small concept") Maybe just a rectangular shape? or Round 8" plate?
What are your thoughts?
Thanks!
Tack
I would suggest you try GT targets. They have a modular design that appears to be easily transportable and affordable. I also e-mailed them this morning, and rcv’d an answer around 5:00 p.m., on a Sunday. I will buy from them because they apparently take customer service seriously.
Their line-up is pretty standard.
400 and 500 brinell steel.
8", 10", 12" disc’s, IPSC and popper available.
GT Targets is an excellent place. I’ve shot lots of their targets and they are very high quality. the owner (Karl) is a great guy too.
But, I use a swinging 8" plate made by The Metal Man: http://www.themetalman.com/targ_swinger.html
You can use FMJ rifle ammo on it with no problems. One of the things I like about it is that the hanging target part is actually tilted forward a little bit (the top is a little closer to the shooter than the bottom) just because of the way it naturally balances. So when you hit it, the bullet is deflected down into the ground. There is very little chance of a bounce back and I shoot it pretty close some times.
Also, I mount it on 4 broomstick handles (that you can easily get from Home Depot or Lowes) instead of the 4 iron rods (about 2 feet long each) that came with it. That way, it is positioned higher, which seems more natural to aim at, and it doesn’t deflect all of the bullets into the same place in the ground (if you care about the grass).
Joe Mamma
I’ve purchased IPSC steel targets from LA targets and Arntzen Target Division.
Both brands were 3/8 inch thick 500 bernel(sp?).
At 50 yards, 556 fmj out of 16in barrels do not pit the steel.
762x51 (308) fmj within about 100 yards pits and craters the steel.
As far as handguns: 9mm, 40, 45acp, 44mag calibers and various bullet types don’t pit the steel outside of 25 yards. 45acp rounds pit the plates sometimes at 15 yards.
My friends and I shoot the IPSCs with 338 Lapua as close as 300 meters with no pits.
Keep in mind that the surface steel will work harden and begin to chip and even eventually have some bullet holes. This is because the steel will exhibit some “brittle” characteristics after extensive use.
Salute 10-8/EAG steel target, m4carbine.net
12 x 18 x .25 inch plates, weighing about 15 pounds each…, sniper’s hide, member Tango Alpha, …$40 for one, $30 each for two or more. Does not include shipping.
A local VA company makes some very nice AR500 targets. I’ve shot on some of his and they’re great. He also supports the shooting sports and gives away a ton of them at prize tables at USPSA and IDPA matches, IMHO his prices are very reasonable.
http://nevcotargets.com/catalog.html
The owners name is Nevitt Morton and he’s also a competitor. His son Sonny is an amazing shooter and competitor as well (he’s beat me a few times and he’s like 14-16yrs old) ranked as a B class shooter in USPSA and Master in IDPA, he’s picked up a M&P9 this year and is kicking ass left and right. And as Ron Avery has said “B class is the black belt of pistol shooting.”
i bought a couple hundred bucks worth of ar500 steel in 10" plates 1/2" thick. it’s great, but when a friend of mine discovered the disks and blades off old plows (the kind you pull behind a tractor) work great and are practically free, we just leave them out and don’t bother hiking them back in. it’s been months since i hung one of my expensive plates.
Joe, or anyone else that knows…
Do the GT Targets face the ground in front to negate “Splash”?
I don’t see AR500 listed, and am wondering…will 3/8" AR400 take 5.56mm hits at 20 yds. and back without damage?
I sure like GT’s prices and Modular approach.
Thanks! Getting closer.
Tack
I have started talking to Karl at GT, and he believes that 1/2" AR500 will dent about 1/16" to 1/8" at 20 yds. with AR loads. The heavier the bullet, the bigger the dent. He is actually looking for a used target to send to me to try. WOW!
Has anyone shot at 20 yds. without damging a 1/2" AR500 Steel target, or do all of them dent at CQB distances?
Tack
In case Karl didn’t tell you, the targets do not really face the ground so they do not negate splash.
I have shot my swinging target (3/8" AR500) at fairly close range (about 25 yrds) MANY times with an AK and standard AK ammo (Wolf 122gr FMJ). It dents a TINY bit (far less less than 1/16"), but I don’t worry about it. Again, the target swings when you hit it so, this takes out a lot of the energy.
Joe Mamma
Thanks Joe!
Karl indicated that they are now making the hangers both ways…stright up or at an angle, but I will make sure that I understand clearly how much of an angle.
I’m thinking that a swinger might be better as far as cost, and splash. Maybe a 10".?
Tack
I’m not sure what you will be practicing (speed or accuracy) and at what distance. But, I suggest that you err on the side of getting something a little smaller than you think instead of a little bigger. Your accuracy will get better (hopefully!) and you can always slow down to make hits on a smaller target. But, If you get something too big, you could “outgrow it” by getting too good.
Also, as you get better, you might think that you could always move the target farther away from you. But, you may have space limitations at your range that could make it difficult or impossible.
An 8" circle has been about right for my purposes.
One other thing to consider is that a static target seems easier (compared to a swinger) to set up, transport, adjust to different height stands, etc. But, I think a static target is much more likely to break because the target (specifically the welds) has to absorb the impact of the bullet.
With a swinger, it just swings to absorb the impact. I’ve seen both types break. But, I’ve seen a lot more of the static ones break because of this. Of course, this is usually after a lot of use.
Joe Mamma
I have 3/8" AR500 abrasion resistant steel, and I’ve shot it inside 50yds and don’t recommend it with a 5.56. It’s just asking for trouble, in my opinion.
Angled downward with pistol rounds, in both pistols and subguns, is no problem at 10-15yds.
No pistol round has made anything more than a lead “build-up” bump on the steel I have.
The classes I’m involved with, we use Better Bilt (same guy that makes the Safe Direction gun case). They really take a 5.56 pounding. We never shoot them inside 50 yards.
All…Thanks for your helpful replies.
Our Tactical 180 degree berms are only 50 yds. long. I was hoping to have a target system for CQB drills so I wouldn’t have to paste. Most of the advice from you guys and the manufacturers indicate that this is not safe to do…at least with a “Static Target”. I might consider a 10" Swinger later on.
I’m abandoning this Steel Target option for now.
Thanks again for all your insights.
Tack
Todd,
Try the Salute Products DoD MilSpec Base with either their 2/3 IPSC, or 10-8/EAG, or FBI Q targets. www.saluteproducts.com They are 3/8" thick AR500 steel targets, but the DoD MilSpec base forward cants the targets in such a way that all of the spalling/splash is deflected down. I have shot these safely as an individual as close as 7 yards and shot them in 10-8 Consulting classes safely with 12 students on line as close as 15 yards with 5.56NATO and 7.62 NATO. View the “Training Day” video clip on the Salute Products website to see for yourself. If shooting primarily from 16" barrels or shorter, impact on the target face is almost negligiable.
S/F
Thanks FJB! Good to know.
Tack
This are my swingers from www.themetalman.com when new (10" and 4")
Here after about 100 rounds. I had to paint the 4" a few times to actually “see” it at 100 yds with a woods background.
They work great with 5.56 and 7.62 x 39.
Let me give you a piece of advice, let the spray paint dry before you shoot them again…:rolleyes: