Lots of knowledgeable folks say not to shoot steel cased ammo in your AR.
Can anyone of these folks:
a) give real/technical reasons why it should not be done?
b) what can be somewhat easily done to reliably/constantly accommodate steel cased ammo, ie. barrel/chamber design changes, extractors, etc
(inserts popcorn eating smiley)
There is a lot of myth around this one. Careful not to step in the bullshit. 
Hell, I even reload the steel cases. Boxer primed of course. Works great.
Oh no . . . my first post is a defense of steel case ammo
Anyway, I’ve run steel cased Wolf pretty much exclusively through my Armalite carbine since the day it was bought in 2000. The only other ammo that it has ever seen was a case of Spanish SS109 and about 500 rounds of LC to check function and get a zero. Other than that, I have pumped at least 10K of Wolf through that bad boy.
Interestingly, the only rifle related malf that I have EVER encountered was with the Spanish SS109 - it popped a primer that locked up the FCG tight as a vise.
In my rifle, Wolf just runs and runs without any issues. IMHO, a rifle that won’t run Wolf is a broken rifle.
Would I use it for combat? HELL NO! Will I use it to train? HELL YES!
I burned another perfect case this weekend. 1K rounds without cleaning and zero malfs.
YMMV, IMHO, etc
Disconnector
I did a thread on this a while back too-
General consensus: SHOOT THE PISS OUT 'EM
I really can only afford to shoot wolf- I have yet experience any ammo related malfunction and the gun shows no extra wear.
I know there a lot of folks actually shooting steel cased ammo. I’ve done it myself when other ammo was not available or I don’t want to delve into my good stocks.
However, this post is really about why it SHOULDN’T be done (specifically/technically) and what can be done to the AR platform to make it acceptable w/regards to steel cased ammo. I’m looking for technical reasons, not “it runs like a raped ape in my AR!” or “tried it once but it didn’t work”. Anecdotal accounts are fine but I’d like to hear from the engineering/technical types, preferably with evidence or solid theories.
As a side note to steel cased ammo, I’d like to hear about copper coated steel jacketed ammo in the AR also.
Now that does not sound like a very good idea at all. How many rounds of steel cased ammo have you reloaded? What powder and charge? Bullet weight? How did you prep the case?
I have to admit, I’ve done a 180 on Wolf Ammo.
I’ve always used it in AK’s and SKS’s, and I shot a case of 9mm through Glocks with no issues.
However, I avoided the 223 like the plague. A year ago, I wouldn’t have shot Wolf 223 through someone else’s gun.
When Federal XM193 or Winchester 3131A were $180/K and Wolf was $125, it just wasn’t worth the price difference to me. The difference in pricing today is a whole different story.
I’ve used maybe 2-3000 of it with no probs other than some of it was a little weak and it seems like it was all a little dirtier than most ammo. But that’s been a few years ago.
My feeling always was that the broken extractor thing came more from runs and drips in the laquer coating than from the cases being steel. One knowledgeable first-hand source tells me though that he had some stuck cases with the new polymer coated stuff too.
Ammo prices being what they are, I’d say, use it for training to your heart’s content, but with a different, training-only extractor as a precaution. Extractors are so easy to swap in the AR, it should be no big deal. I’ll even bet a dab of red paint on the “not for the street” extractor, and a dab of green on the “street” extractor, would hold up well enough. Or Dremel a little “X” in the training extractor.
Ned, what exactly is the issue with extractors? Is it a case of wear? Unfortunately, I think the AR could have done with a bigger extractor all along and the “not very tapered” case of the 5.56 round does not help extraction, IMO.
I’m referring to the widely accepted statement that steel cased ammo breaks extractors. I’ve not had nor seen it happen but guys that see a lot more rounds downrange a year than I do say they’re seeing it and I don’t dispute that. I guess it does make some sense in that, a problem that with a brass case might result in the extractor pulling a chunk out of the rim, might instead result in the stronger steel rim pulling the claw off the extractor.
I only shoot the New Polymer Wolf ammo in my AR. I haven’t yet noticed any extra wear on my extractor but what Ned is saying makes perfect sense- AR extractors are so cheap and it doesn’t hurt to have one for specifically for training ammo.
The extractor in my Bushmaster broke after shooting ten thousand rounds of steel cased ammo. This is not an argument for or against shooting steel cased ammo in an AR, it is merely a factual statement.
My buddy dan has shot 7K rounds of it threw his M16 and only replaced the extractor once, this was also after countless rounds of brass ammo too.
Rob
You can buy 2 cases of Wolf from Cheaper than Dirt (if they had any) AND an upper with BCG from somebody like J&T to shoot the Wolf in…For about the same price, you can only buy 2 cases of M193 from Cheaper than Dirt (if they had any). If you went the first option, after the first 2 cases of Wolf, your “pratice” upper would be paid for.
I’ve noticed that after reaming an AR chamber with Neds 5.56mm NATO reamer will make a rifle once finicky with Wolf stop being finicky with it and run. Wolf is weaker typically.
I have run several thousand rounds of Wolf out of my 6920. I have only had one issue that I can blaim directly on the ammunition, had a m193 stick in the chamber when I switched from the Wolf. Finally got the round out and the case was coated to the point it nearly looked like a wolf round from all of the polymer sticking to it.
Akoni,
In response to your original question about the technical reason why it is usually advised not to shoot steel cased ammo in an AR, this is what I have gathered:
The .223 / 5.56mm case has very little taper (from the rim to the shoulder). This design does little to aid in the ease of extracting the case from the chamber. When a round is fired, pressure and heat case the case to expand, it begins to cool, contracts a little, it is then extracted. All this happens VERY quickly, of course. I have heard (I’m no metalugist…or whatever…) that steel is affected more by this heat and pressure, expands to a greater amount than brass, and does not cool as fast. Therefore, it is more prone to getting “stuck” in the chamber - not cooling and contracting enough in the fraction of a second after firing to be extracted. Even if it does extract, it has more friction on the chamber walls, and is more difficult to extract. This results in accelerated extractor wear. If it is “stuck” in the chamber really good, it will not extract at all, and can result in a case with a torn rim and the case physically stuck in the chamber, and or a broken extractor.
The 7.62x39mm, 5.45x39mm, 7.62x54mm (AK and SKS rounds) have a heavy taper from the rim to the shoulder. These cases have a built in feature that eases extraction and makes heating / cooling, expanding / contracting cases not nearly as much of an issue. Guns chambered in these cartridges have no problem running steel cased ammo.
Now, all that being said, as you know many people run steel cased ammo in AR’s and lots say it is doing fine. If you wanted to make an upgrade to help allow steel to run well in an AR, I would suggest using a 5.56 chamber (instead of the tighter .223), looking into extractors made of very hard steel (they probably already are…) and an extra power extractor spring.
Or, you could buy / build an AR chambered in 7.62x39mm. However, I hear that good mags are really hard to come by. I’m not even sure that any high capacity mags exist for this application. I have seen 10 rounders, though.
Again, I am no expert, and someone may be along very shortly that can answer your question better than me. Hope this helped.
I only shoot steel case ammo in my AK and SKS…it is not recommended in my AR’s by the manufacturer and won’t shoot it in them… quite a few shooters do shoot the steel and no problem but it won’t be me…
A possible solution might be a fluted chamber. Does anyone know if that has been tried on the AR platform? It would be easier to engineer/build than, say a better/bigger extractor. With the shortages in mil spec 5.56 and the possibility they may last for quite a while, it may be worth trying to get this sorted.