Rob, I wouldn’t put too thought into it. I think they are largely (not solely) due to the third option you listed, with the addition that some may simply be curious from a purely academic position with no intent on buying. Granted, I have seen a number of users who were obviously trying to validate their opinions on a brand, good or bad.
In any case, I’m am not one of those people eager to see brand X or Y on the chart; I’m just stating what I’ve seen to be some people’s reasoning. There was a discussion of the chart on another forum, I forget where, and I saw this come up an number of times. And yes, a lot of the questions one might have could be answered by simply taking some time to do research on one’s own time.
And I’m sure you already know this, but a LOT of people aren’t the type that are going to take the effort to research something extensively. They just want to be told what to buy or an easy means of coming up with that decision themselves. I encounter this frequently in the world of firearms, and even more frequently in the world of computing technology.
Also, some comments, questions, and complaints have their origin deep within the Peanut Gallery, and should just be ignored.
This is what gives me pause, and what led in part to my pulling the old version. In a world full of people who not only lack the ability to fish but refuse to take the rod and reel when offered, I am reluctant to continue to be a party to the free fish business.
I strongly disagree. There are few people who have the knowledge base to identify everything you have listed in the chart, and be able to contact a manufacturer and ask for clarification. I think people who are heavily involved in the weapon community (and I don’t mean gun boards) can forget the world of new people, and the users who are not dialed in to the specifics.
Using the fishing analogy, I think the “chart” is teaching people to fish, not giving them the fish for free. If its not giving people information and teaching them whats important, or at least establishing a baseline, whats the point in it?
The world is full of the lazy, the misinformed, and the ignorant who misuse and abuse. Why not ignore them? They do nothing to detract from the quality and value of your data, or its appreciation by those who use it the way that you intend.
Looking forward to the new chart. I used it as a learning tool and am now on my way to making a rifle that I own better. That is the value I see in the Chart. Thank you for the hard work.
Rob, the gun store where I work one night a week now has a copy of the old one and uses it to inform staff and customers. It is used as a tool by folks like me who can’t remember all of it and is a good visual tutoring aid for those who would be overwhelmed with all of the info. It is also more useful than me telling them to “Just buy a Colt.”
I’ve referred the Chart to dozens of people but never without telling them (more than once) that the most important part of the whole Chart is the Explanation section. I tell them to ignore the Chart section and to read the Descriptions, follow the LINKS, and then after they have a decent understanding…look at the Chart.
To just show that a Colt is better than a Oly doesn’t do a whole lot of good for the individual but showing him “WHY” the Colt is better, that is teaching a person how to fish. So, the Explantions teach how to fish and the Chart’s graphics just make the results obvious.
When some guy posts that his BM is jag as a Colt, it is obvious that if he looked at the Chart, he didn’t bother reading the Explanations. When people make their defensive jag comments, it is easy to see their comments are ego driven. When someone tells them they paid too much for substandard gun, their ego gets a double whammy because their “manliness” and their “intelligence” are insulted at the same time.
The way I see it is, a lot of people don't get a chance to hold many of these brands before they can make a purchase. Where I live most of the stores carry RRA, Bushmaster, and Colt, and if you ask the people at the gun shops they'll tell you the RRA is just as good as the Colt.
If I hadn’t found this site I most likely would never had heard of brands like Noveske, Daniel Defense, and Bravo Company, but thanks to this site and the chart I now own a Noveske rather than one of the many RRA’s that were being pushed on me.
So I wouldn’t take these requests for brands as any sort of laziness or fan boy syndrome, it’s just that many people have come to respect both you and M4carbine.net and see your input as invaluable information.
I understand what you are saying, but your chart has helped me to explain/illustrate to numerous new people interested in the AR platform WHY I am suggesting the brand I am suggesting.
Yes, I know that a lot of people are too lazy to research stuff and sometimes use the work of others to “substantiate” their erroneous beliefs, but, then there are also people like myself who do try to be informed and see the chart as a foundation of information from which to expand on.
Rob, I’m looking forward to the new chart as well. I’ve used it a number of times with friends who were about to make a mistake with either a BM or DPMS and was able to help steer them towards a BCM.
Thanks for all the work you’ve put into the charts.
“The requester is considering making a purchase from said manufacturer and wants the scoop. While understandable, why doesn’t the requester simply examine a sample for the obvious, and ask questions of the manufacturer about the less obvious?”
Then what’s the purpose of the chart? I mean, they could just look at the spec’s you deem important and “examine the sample” or “ask questions” just like you are doing. So, why have a chart at all?
Then what’s the purpose of the chart? I mean, they could just look at the spec’s you deem important and “examine the sample” or “ask questions” just like you are doing. So, why have a chart at all?
There are some things you just can’t look at. The most important things on the chart are barrel steel make-up, MPI/HPT testing on parts, and to a degree, shot-peening.
All of these things are very advantageous to have, yet without spending more money than what you’d spend on the gun AND destroying/ruining said gun and parts for the sake of the destructive testing procedures they go through, there is no way to know.
And that brings the point: well, since no one is gonna ruin their gun over something like that, how do we know we aren’t getting lied to?
Simple: all it takes is one bad bolt, one bad barrel, etc. to blow out, and there is the material to use as destructible samples - and if it doesn’t test according to what the companies say…BAM! The consumer report will bite them in the butt hard.
This isn’t so much about quality as it is about honesty and dedication to one’s customers.
What’s funny is I’ve noticed several people that have screen names of the makers from the center to right side of the Chart, seem to be the ones that don’t see a need for the Chart.
Kind of like when someone has been in the dark a long time and suddenly a bright light gets turned on, the first thing the guy does is close or cover his eyes.
I have used your chart to steer friends to DD and away from shit.
I guess when it comes to due diligence, they thought asking me was enough… thankfully for them, this time it was.
So, fwiw, Thank you.
you go to all the trouble to obtain and publish the data and then disdain the people who need it or seek further information. if the chart is not for them, then what is it?
You can do the research others can’t or don’t want to and then post it when it’s complete. I for one found the first chart very enlightening, but you can’t control how others will see or use it. Best you can do is to post your intent for the chart at the head of the thread in the biggest font possible, but after that it’s just not worth fighting the fight for people to understand. After years of admin’ing an online forum car forum, I’ve realized it’s just not worth getting bent out of shape over what people say or do online.
Even if you don’t make the chart, posting up the features has really enlightened me. I know that each feature is dependent on the users’ wants and needs, but without learning what they were I’d be in the dark on even how the AR truly works.
So yes, we could all e-mail them ourselves in an effort to find out, but you hold more leverage in the situation and I’m sure after awhile we would all get spam-blocked.
