Delta, in general I agree with your tastes and assessment of 1911’s, and I know we have in the past as well. And definitely on the Baers.
One thing I’ve sort of updated on: I’m not quite as positive about Dan Wesson 1911’s as I used to be. They have done an interesting thing, trying to fill a market niche of creating a production gun that is high quality and uses high-end parts like a semi-custom. I appreciate what they’re trying to do, but at the prices they’re selling for, something has to give and I personally believe it is in the human aspect, the quality of the fitting. Not like DW’s are an accident waiting to happen, they’re not THAT bad. But I hear of just enough issues with DW now that IMO, it seems like their reliability isn’t quite up to par with the SA Pro and the CQB. If I were in this market, I’d step up for the Pro at a minimum.
i have a buddy who, once he shot my pro, bought one and sold his cqb. i let another acquaintance who works at a range shoot my pro. he has a cqb, dan wesson, a couple of fusion builds, and considers his cqb the cream of the crop. he said he wanted to get a pro but was on the fence. i let him put a few rounds through my pro and he was impressed, saying that he did not shoot his wilson as good as my pro and it sold him on the gun.
after i got my pro all my other 1911’s went on the trading block.
I totally agree with you. I have 1.3 Colts built by Chuck Rogers (a second Colt build had some of his machine work performed on the slide and sights installed by him). As a master gunsmith and former aerospace machinist, Chuck’s attention to detail is very impressive.
You have to look close and even even take the gun apart to see all of the extra skill that went into his build that you won’t find on any semi-custom gun or even on many competent 1911 smiths’ builds.
The time that a top end 1911 smith puts into a build is money well spent and perhaps these builds will way outlast a gun like the Springfield Pro. My point about how I like my Pro as much as I like my Rogers Colt is in several factors:
-The way they shoot. Not really much difference here. Just an arbitrary thing that would vary from shooter to shooter. If you ask me next year I might favor the Colt over the Pro. My Colt could be a bit lighter than the Pro from some of the work performed on it. The Pro’s weight might be an advantage at the range but the Colt carries way better. My opinion on which gun that I slightly prefer to shoot really does not detract from the high quality of the Colt build.
-Knowing a smith like Chuck’s reputation and seeing his work, I would not be surprised if his guns would endure a longer service life than the Pro, but, the Pro is strictly built for function and has passed some very stringent and documented testing.
-Customer service. Springfield’s Custom Shop is excellent. I won’t go further than that.
So, dollar for dollar, The Pro shines. If you want what most of us would say is possibly the absolute best, Chuck wins. JMO.
Wilsons are very nice. I also think that they are way, way over-priced, especially compared to the Pro. Especially when you start looking at the Elite and Supergrade models. I nearly ordered a Supergrade a while back and luckily came to my senses and ordered a Pistol Dynamics Scout for 1K less.
I do like the fact that Wilson offers whatever features that you want (for the most part) on a quality 1911 and you can actually get it in less than one year, but, you pay for it.
After my experiences with Wilson and Nighthawk, I swore off all semi-customs (except for the Springfield Custom Shop) in favor of top end smiths. I think the Custom Shop is exceptional in the value and quality departments.
I am officially jealous. I was all set to order a Pistol Dynamics Combat Special. Talked to Paul, spec’d out a build sheet, got a quote, and was all set to write a check when real life got in the way. An unexpected emergency happened and the money that I set aside was needed for more urgent matters. Paul understood completely and told me to give him a call when I was ready.
It sucked having to put off getting a dream gun, but the sting was lessened because I already own two fine 1911 from Les Baer and the Springfield Custom Shop. Though neither pistol is as awesome as the PD Combat Special, both are reliable, accurate, and have served me well. I agree with you that with regards to both custom and semi-custom 1911s there is a fair amount of “gilding the lily.” A gun from Paul will have more attention to detail, possibly have a crisper trigger, and maybe be a tad more accurate, but whether it’ll be a more effective weapon is debateable. A good gun is a good gun and the custom smiths aren’t the only ones who know how to build a 1911.
I’d like to add one final point. It doesn’t matter if a 1911 is made by Colt, Wilson Combat, or Ted Yost. I wouldn’t trust any of them until I had shot enough rounds to deem it reliable and accurate. That goes for any and all guns.
So true, and I have actually had an issue with all three of the ones that you have listed above, even though they all make good guns.
The only thing that I trust completely is that everyone is capable of producing lemons at some point. I know that I must really love 1911s as I have had my share of lemons and issues but the good 1911s seem to make it worthwhile.
I hope that you can still order that Combat Special at some point. I imagine that my order may be my last 1911. I have been thinning out my herd and like you, I would be content with a couple of good ones.
I placed an order for two PD Scouts over two years ago. I have since lucked into my Rogers Precision Colt. The Scouts should be done by summer and Paul had said that I could transfer my purchase or place in line if I needed to (for one of the guns) due to issues at my company. I am not sure that I want to give up a slot yet, but, if Paul was to make what you wanted in place of my order, it would save you a two year wait. I don’t want anything out of the deal and like I said, I’m not sure if I should purchase two at this point but it might be worth looking into. I could go either way. Just an idea.
I have never owned a CQB but I did have a Wilson Protector with a few upgrades (very similar to CQB just stainless). I like it but after buying a Springfield Professional I sold the Protector. I do not own the Wilson anymore but I do own three Professional if that says anything.
I won’t get into the Ford vs Chevy debate but I will say that I own a Carry Custom from Springfield’s custom shop and it is essentially the same pistol as the Professional minus the front strap checkering, ambi safety and mag.-guide. Otherwise it has all the same goodies (Nowlin barrel etc.) at about half the price. That should tell ya something about labels.
Half the price? Custom carry is 1900, non rail pro is 2300, railed pro is 2600…
The extra 400 for the pro gets you a checkered front strap, blended mag well, ambi safety, and black T finish. If you add those options up they exceed 400 dollars…
I don’t follow the current prices much lately but I paid around 1500 new for my Custom Carry a few years ago and I see Pro’s. NIB going for upwards to 3K on the boards. Probably because the wait can be over a year to order one from Springfield and people are willing to pay the price.
I’m going to post some vague line about how I looked at a Wilson Combat once and “was not impressed” then I’m not going to back it up or answer any questions about it.
…way to contribute to the forum.
In all seriousness, the Springfield Pro that I own had to go back to the Custom Shop as it jammed on EVERY ROUND when I first got it. SA claimed there was nothing wrong with it, and that they changed nothing, but it came back about 99%. I am going to send it back to them again and demand that they go through it with a fine tooth comb, fix anything wrong and refinish it with new Black T. I’m just hoping that doesn’t cost me too much…
can you give more details? what ammo were you shooting? how old is your pro? are you the original owner? approximate round count? my pro is from 2001 and runs fine on my carry ammo, remington golden saber (which is the round it was designed to feed - anything else may not), shoots aguila, remington umc, military match, blaser brass, rws, just about everything except pmc bronze brass ammo. numerous failure to feeds with the pmc bronze, so i do not shoot that ammo. i do not shoot reloads in it.
Sounds like my experience with my former Pro. I will simply say best of luck, I ended up paying out of pocket for my repairs since SA claimed nothing was wrong. Good thing I listened to John Harrison, the smith who fixed it, over SA.
Im going with oil and limp wrist. But hell, even of best of the best make a lemon once in a while. Good luck
I sent and XD Back twice, a gun that cost 25% of that Pro. They happily accepted it and paid shipping twice. The second time they bought the same ammo I was shooting because they couldn’t get it to malfunction. They bought the ammo, still functioned well for them. When I gt it back, it WAS PROBABLY FINALLY BROKE IN AND NEVER MALF’ed again.
Make sure you have 500 rounds through the gun and your using their mags to test it.
