Though I agree that a small 9 makes more sense, mostly, I wanted a small .45 for a specific purpose, and got a Kahr P45 to replace my Officer’s model. The P45 has a 3.64" barrel, so it clocks a little faster than the closer to 3" PM45, and it’s reportedly more reliable than the shorter gun.
Now I realize the Kahr’s don’t have a sterling rep, but neither do the Springfield XD’s. My experience with the PM45, consists of my best friend’s that has worked flawlessly since he took it out of the box, and mine, which shit the bed when I got it, (my usual luck), went back to Kahr, and has now gone 1200 rounds+ malfunction free. I really didn’t expect to like the Kahr, but it’s actually grown on me. I’ve been carrying it a lot lately.
XD-S 5+1
Kahr PM45 5+1
Kahr P45 6+1
Overall length
XD-S 6.3"
PM45 5.67"
P45 6.07"
Barrel length
XD-S 3.3"
PM45 3.14"
P45 3.64"
Height
XD-S 4.4"
PM45 4.49"
P45 4.8"
Weight
XD-S 29 oz
PM45 17.3 oz
P45 18.5 oz
Kahr weights are without mags, not sure on the XD-S. The Kahr mags weigh 2 oz if the XD-S weight includes mag.
29 oz unloaded would take the XD-S out of the “pocket pistol” category for me.
You forgot one major thing…that Kahr cost about 800 bucks. I’m not saying you shouldn’t pay a little more for something you are staking your life on. But I personally wouldn’t pay that much for something I knew didn’t have a good track record. The Springfield will probably be around 550 or less. And since when have XD’s gotten a bad rep. My XDm has over 3 thousand round boxes without a hiccup. Is there something I’m missing?
I own a XD 5" Tactical .40 S&W and I recently purchased a XDS .40. I have shot more then 2500 rounds thru the 5" and the only problem I had was a FTE due to the lack of proper cleaning. I shot 500 rounds thru it that afternoon. I forgot to clean it from the shooting session the weekend before. Gotta love frog lube. So as 2theXtreme has asked are we missing something about them.
I for one will wait and see how this XDS .45 runs. I would like to go and rent one to see how it shoots. I like the idea of a small .45 but I am thinking that beings this is the first of its kind there might be some bugs in it. Time will only tell what this handgun will do.
I didn’t pay close to 800 for my Kahr. The CW45 version is even cheaper, sub 400 bucks. I doubt there’s 100 bucks difference in wholesale between the XD and the PM45.
I have a little personal knowledge of the XD not doing well in some LE testing, but I also know guys that have had great luck with them. Nether of them seem to be a common go to gun for for the guys in the know.
I am not understanding why you are unable to back up what you have said about the parts failing on the XD/M in a LE tests. I read what Doc wrote about them. Doesn’t really say much about what parts failed. And how the pistols were tested. Thats what I would like to know. Is this pistol testing a secret and can’t be talked about.
Here’s a link you might like. It gives the good and bad about them and alot of the stuff people are saying are not true. Just more of what someone told them or they read online. There’s also a part about what Doc said as to why he doesn’t like them. That they can’t be minipulated by your off hand or by one hand at all. The gentleman that started the thread is a LEO and he has had Glocks, M&P’s , Sig’s, and XD/M both as personal firearms and duty weapons. And no I am not trying to change your mind or argue with you. I know my XD has some minor problems even Glock has some too. I just want you to be able to answer my question which you seem not to be able to.
I said I have some personal knowledge of them not doing well in some LE tests. Personal knowledge…conversations, guys I know, etc. It was a passing reference. Probably much like Doc’s where he said…
XD’s are a no go for serious use–the inability to retract the slide without engaging the grip safety makes one-hand injured operation very difficult with the XD–this is a deal breaker for me. In addition, in some government tests, XD’s (particularly the .40’s) have broken a lot of parts compared to other pistols being tested…I’ll take a 9 mm Glock or M&P any day of the week over an XD.
So if your torqued about part’s breakage on XD’s not being “backed up”, ask Doc, he’s the one who said it.
But you might not want to use that terminology with him…
No secret, just don’t want to throw out info guys I know, gave me, out on the net. Agencies are funny about that. Again…maybe the same reasons Doc didn’t link to the testing he was referring to. If you’re LE, PM me your department contact info and I’ll see if I can hook you up with someone that feels like sharing data with you.
So at the XD forums, they think their gun is great and isn’t getting a fair shake?
Yer kiddin’!!!
So do you have an explanation of why the XD is so absent on the lists of LE issued guns?
Conspiracy? Croatian prejudice?
Pal, I got no dog in the fight here. I’m glad you’re happy with your XD’s. I have friends that have had good luck with theirs. Just like I’ve had mainly good luck with my Kahr PM45, (for a specific purpose), even though like the XD, they don’t seem to have sterling reputations with LE.
But if I were back kicking doors again, I probably wouldn’t carry either one.
When I see le I like to look and see what they are carrying. I have noticed more are now carrying Xd or XDm. I still see more glocks then anything else, but not nearly as much now.
I have owned the Xd and XDm and liked them for what they were, tools. I don’t see them being any better then Glock, just different.
XD’s are a no go for serious use–the inability to retract the slide without engaging the grip safety makes one-hand injured operation very difficult with the XD–this is a deal breaker for me. In addition, in some government tests, XD’s (particularly the .40’s) have broken a lot of parts compared to other pistols being tested…I’ll take a 9 mm Glock or M&P any day of the week over an XD.
every one handed malfunction drill shown in this video is done with a proper firing grip on the gun. How does a grip safety prevent you from doing this? It is a moot point as long as you have a proper grip. How else are you suppose to rack the slide one handed without having a proper firing grip on the pistol?
I agree with you, we were trained to use the rear sights to rack one handed, either off of your duty holster, table, car door, etc. I’ll take my XD’s over my Glock any day
I’ll pick one of these up if the price is right. XD’s are very nice firearms. They have a bad rep on these forums but according to this forum the only handguns even worth owning are Glock/MP/HK so take that with a grain o’ salt!
The whole “no one handed manipulation” is stupid. What are the chances that you won’t be able to manipulate it because of an injury and even so, it would be handled the same way as any other handgun; regardless of any grip safety. There is tons of videos around of people demonstrating this. Verdict??? MOOT POINT. INTERNET MYTH. How would you not be able to manipulate the gun because of the grip safety? This to me proves that people online will say anything to try and validate their claims. If you’re holding the gun, you’re pressing the safety. Period.
The real flaw of the XD is the roll pin that will break if you dry fire it too much. Get some snap caps, or simply put… DON’T DRY FIRE IT.
Besides that, the XD/XDM series are fine handguns. Yes, I’m sure there are lemons but every brand has their lemons even HK (albeit much less).
The XDM line is certainly not worth the $600-$750 asking price though. For that money you could buy an HK! For $400-$450, I think the XD’s are sweet shooters and very reliable. I had a XD9SC that ate everything, steel casing, +p, you name it. Never had one malfunction and the accuracy was the best I’ve ever seen from a sub-compact, hands down. I only sold it to fund my HK!
Dude, don’t get so offended over nothing. I’m saying what are the chances that you’d be injured in a way that it’s going to stop you from manipulating the firearm? I can’t think of any way the grip safety would stop you. I don’t care if you had one of your arms blown off, it’s going to be the same as any other handgun in terms of manipulating it.
I do value the opinions of people here, not you, but others. I’m just saying there are other handguns worth owning other than Glock/MP/HK.
Don’t get your panties in a bunch because I think the XD’s are decent guns that get a bad rap’ around here. I’m guessing you haven’t even owned one, let alone shot one.
The “vast majority” of LE agencies. Seriously? I want to see the proof because everything I ever hear is “a guy I knew friends dad is a LEO at this agency”. I’ve spoken with many LEO who tested the XD series and most of them agreed it was a nice handgun but their dept. did not issue it because they don’t get significant bulk LE pricing compared to companies like Glock and S&W who practically give them away.
Of the three guns you mentioned, (Glock, S&W, and H&K), Glock claims they have 65% of the LE market and S&W has sold hundreds of agencies M&P pistols in the last couple of years alone. Though H&K has a pretty small share of the LE market, SIG still has some significant LE business, especially in the federal agencies, and Beretta still has a few majors issuing their guns.
Do you know of any agencies issuing the XD?
Yes, it must be pricing that’s kept the XD from taking business away from Glock, S&W, SIG, Beretta and H&K …
