Spike's "Retro"

Since the Retro thing has taken hold with a lot of folks, Spike’s has their own version. Which is noteworthy since some consider them to be one of the “skateboard shops” of the AR world, with their unusual designs and motifs.

I note that this is an HBAR version. Has the HBAR become associated with the whole “Retro” thing?

https://www.spikestactical.com/collections/complete-rifles/20-retro-build/

Stag has a similar offering that they brand as a “Retro” rifle too - 20" barreled flat top with a detachable carry handle. The Stag and this Spike’s gun are just M16A4 style rifles, which were phased out of USMC service like what, two years ago? Not even close to fitting my definition of “Retro”.

Regarding the HBAR, Spike’s Not-Retro probably has a “government profile” barrel rather than an actual heavy barrel. Government profile is only heavy forward of the FSB.

You got me curious about the barrel profile, so I sent an E-Mail to Spike’s requesting information. I guess I took it as being a full-length heavy barrel since the rifle weighs 9 pounds.

I wouldn’t call that retro but at I do like the 20 inch guns so having another company making them is good I guess.

Honestly if they did it with an a2 upper I’d say it was retro. An a4 upper with a carry handle though no.

DS Arms has their “Service Series” A4. Although it also features an HBAR profile:

https://www.dsarms.com/p-17082-dsarms-ar15-20-service-series-556x45-nato-a4-rifle-knights-armament-upgrades.aspx

Yeah, 20 inch ARs are great guns and still very relevant for civilian use if nothing else. Just don’t call these Spike’s guns Retros. Also if they are actually true HBAR profile, that’s a big turn off for me too.

Knowing Spike’s, they’ll probably tell you it’s “proprietary information”.

If it was REALLY retro, they’d sell it for $575 - like the PWA HBAR I bought in 1991. :stuck_out_tongue:

It might be a decent rifle, but that spider logo is just fugly.

Received a reply from Spike’s customer service rep regarding the barrel profile on this particular mode. This is a full-length heavy barrel.

This is Spike’s HBAR:

https://www.spikestactical.com/collections/barrels/5-56-barrel-hbar-20/

Looks like a hefty chunk of CMV under those handguards. Probably a “no go” for many folks.

As someone who handles and shoots actual Retro style 20" pencil barreled ARs regularly, the barrel profile on the Spike’s Not-Retro truly looks like the stuff of nightmares.

Now I’m really not clear what Spike’s was thinking with this.

With all that weight forward, looks like the rifle might be a bit unbalanced. But, evidently Spike’s sells enough of these to keep them in their catalog.

With regard to the HBAR configuration itself, most folks I’ve talked to say that it really isn’t any more accurate than other profiles. The heavier contour reduces or eliminates barrel “whip”. I don’t ever hear that term mentioned any more, so I’m guessing that it mainly applies to competition shooting?

And don’t forget - with this you have a lot sturdier barrel for bayonet practice :smiley:

Go back and review why the USMC mandated the barrel change(s) to the A2 and you’ll see the benefits of that design. You’ll also see the drawbacks. I have a Colt AR15A4 rifle but I prefer pencil barrels. Pencil barrels heat faster but also cool faster.

This has been discussed before, but the Army didn’t agree with the A2 barrel profile. From their 1986 study:

“The M16A2 “heavy barrel” is heavy in the wrong place. The problem with the M16A1 is a temporary bending of the barrel which occurs from the stress of various firing positions causing bullet strike to vary, e.g., the difference between a bipod firing position, and a position using a hasty sling will change the strike of the bullet at 300 meters by three to four feet or more. The “bending” takes place between the receiver and the sling swivel/ bayonet stud. The M16A2 barrel is “heavy” only from the sling swivel to the muzzle–where it can have no effect on the bending problem.”

In fact, the Army apparently found very little to like about the M16A2. Maybe they didn’t care for the fact that it was a USMC initiative:

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a168577.pdf

My old Bushmaster A2 is .Gov profile. I have also shot the same gun with HBAR. Unless you’re bench resting in some kind of competition, HBAR should be avoided.

Bushmaster used to (and maybe still does?) market their HBAR’s as competition guns.

Too much unnecessary weight?

Over the years I’ve known a few guys that owned HBAR’s (Bushies and other brands). They weren’t competition guys - just weekend target shooters/plinkers. The ones I talked to seemed satisfied with the gun’s accuracy, but noted that they wouldn’t want to lug the thing around all day.

I think so. My A2 with govt profile weighs 7.7 pounds unloaded. Not at all unmanageable. Not quite as handy as a M4, but you could move and shoot. But the HBAR version weighs close to 9 pounds. And all that weight is out front. Fine for bench resting, but a bit much for offhand shooting. And a long way from the original M16A1.

Well the army can’t shoot for shit so their opinion matters little. Shot expert all three times I went to qual with the A2 and all three times shot the 10 zone 9 out of 10 times at 500 yards

My first two times qualifying in the Marines, was with the M16A1, then the rest was with the A2. I shot expert each time, with each rifle, and never really paid much attention to the details, I just put the bullets where they needed to be.

I do remember the first time I got issued the A2 though…I remember thinking “this thing is beefy”.