If it’s Colt, we know the QC is up to par, right? Who makes Colt’s? What on their carbines does Colt make?
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Not to doubt your word, I’m sure you’re correct. Who makes them, then? They do pass Colt’s QC.
I’ve tried looking and here is what I come up with, first a rather eloquent statement of the issue:
[i]
That info is confidential in almost all cases. There are very STRICT Contracts regarding the confidentiality of subbed-out companies that do the machining of parts for AR-15 Manufacturers.
You’re not going to know these things unless you work for a manufacturer, and even then, you’d have to keep your mouth shut about it.
This is precisely why I find it humorous, and highly idicative of Fanboy Ignorance when people Trash-Talk manufacturer ABC out one side of their mouth, and blindly praise, laud, and magnify the ‘superiority’ of manufacturer XYZ out the other side of their mouth! Often times within the same exact thread!
They don’t seem to realize - Company XYZ uses parts manufactured by Company ABC, as well as parts made by the same sub-contracted machine shops. [/i]
So after all that, as far as I can tell, these guys (and gals) are all OEM suppliers (certainly not the whole list, probably not even a start):
http://www.lwschneider.com/parts.html - The M16/AR-15 rifle has become a staple for military, law enforcement and competition shooters around the world, and L.W. Schneider has become one of the most prolific suppliers of M16/AR-15 parts to the firearms industry. We currently manufacture AR-style parts ranging from mil spec charging handles, carrying handles and handguards to NM sight assemblies and special custom parts for heavily accurized models. If your company requires specific M16 parts in lots of five-thousand (5000) or more, chances are we either have them in current production or we have manufactured t hem sometime in the not-too-distant past.
http://www.continentalmachinetool.com/firearms.html - "Continental Machine & Tool, has been a major producer of component parts for military and consumer AR-15 manufacturers since the Vietnam War. It’s highly unlikely that anyone who has fired any U.S.-label AR-15 rifle in the last 30 years was using a gun that did not contain CMT-made parts. For the last dozen years, in fact, it has manufactured about 80 percent of all parts for U.S. AR manufacturers––up to 10,000 triggers and hammers a month for AR-15s and M16s " - Dick Metcalf
http://www.amtechinternational.com/ar-15-manufacturer/
http://www.aopmfg.com/industries/firearms/ - AO Precision is a major provider for the M16 and M4 parts contract for upper receivers, bolts, carriers and barrel extensions. We are also sole source to the U.S. Government for breech bolt assemblies for the M61A1 20mm Vulcan cannon. The company produces parts for the M249 SAW and M240 Machine gun and USSOCOM suppressor components.
http://www.schmidtool.com/cnc-machining-steel-trigger-military-industry.html - Schmid Tool and Engineering (those ‘S’ markings you see on hammers and triggers) recently completed the manufacture of a high volume production run of steel triggers for the military firearm industry. The contract called for a two week delivery of 72,000 steel triggers that met multiple military specifications. Fabricated from 8620 steel, our highly trained machinists were able to design the investment casting mold, machining fixtures, and gaging required for the streamlined milling operations used to fabricate the 15." x 2" x 0.3" part. Secondary operations involved grinding and heat treating along with application of a manganese phosphate coating and a black finish. All parts met with the strict ±.0005" tolerances required by the customer’s specification.
At Schmid Tool and Engineering, high volume jobs present us with the opportunity to test our abilities for machining parts in the most efficient, cost-effective manner possible. One of our recent challenges was a contract from a firearms manufacturer for fabricating 100,000 anodized aluminum tubes that met multiple military specifications. Focusing on efficient use of materials, our in-house design team developed a multi-step primary CNC machining process that incorporated an impact extrusion, turning the parts on a Y-axis lathe, and then horizontal milling. Subsequently, the tubes, which measured 8" long with 1" diameters, were put through secondary processes that involved sand blasting, dry film lubricating, and finally anodizing to the required finish. Inspection revealed that all parts maintained the tight ±.0005-inch tolerances that the firearms industry demands. Packaged in partitioned boxes, the tubes were shipped to a satisfied customer.
http://www.ctspring.com/industries/defense-and-firearms -
I don’t know about these guys, are they actually a manufacturer or a jobber? http://www.criticalcapabilities.com/#about
Not saying there is anything wrong with them. Simply that there are some other companies who use and sell the exact parts. Whether someone wants to believe, doubts it, etc… doesn’t cause me to lose sleep at night.
So then have we come full circle? Isn’t a part manufactured to military specifications manufactured to military specifications? And if it is manufactured to military specifications isn’t that independent of the manufacturer? Is a cheap mil spec part inferior to an expensive mil spec part? Or is what we are really saying is that I like company x buy from them?
face palm
EAG had the pleasure of re-visiting the Bravo Company USA facility in Hartland WI 30June 2014.
This visit followed a Bravo Company Special Carbine conducted on 29June2014 http://www.lightfighter.net/to...51#13684252103897051
Full disclosure. Paul is a close friend and has been for 10 years. Bravo Company makes the rifles I use. There is a reason for this…
Our last visit to BRAVO Company was 3 years ago, just as they finished moving from their previous 8000 square foot facility to the current 32000 square foot location.
At that time the building was approximately 1/3 occupied.
Now, it is bursting at the seams.
There is a reason for this as well. They understand the user community and they advertise heavily in the market.
They sell a great number of gun related products.
They make great guns. They have spectacular Quality Control and Quality Assurance.
They have excellent Customer Service.
BCM puts to bed the myth that Parts is Parts that is so espoused by the bubble gun crowd.
Bravo Company is not a factory in the manner of Colt and FNUSA, where they manufacture the majority of the parts that go into the gun. Not yet…
Instead, they purchase parts from specific vendors to assemble the weapons in house, like most other small gun companies do.
The parts BCM uses are the Grade 1 parts that meet the milspec for the M16 FOW. These are purchased from those companies that supply the gov.
However, Bravo Company has learned to check everything that comes in. This is a result of a barrel maker delivering what they claimed was the spec 11595E steel, but after testing at a lab it turned out to be something else.
He certainly could have used the barrels anyway, and no one would have known anything about it.
Except for him.
He lost a lot of money while that was sorted out, but he retained his integrity.
The result is that BCM has invested in gauges and training to ensure everything that comes in the door is within spec. The QA is important when you consider that between 20%-40% of everything they receive has to be rejected for failing to meet the spec.
This is both disturbing and gratifying.
Disturbing because so much of what was in the market as quality items actually sucked.
And gratifying…
Because of this frustration brought on by the rejection rate from USGI suppliers, Bravo Company hasbeen slowly been partnering with machining companies specifically outside the firearms industry to set up its own dedicated BCM production lines and machines for about 80% of the parts that make up the rifle. This has mitigated the ebb and flow of quality and supply that have become the nature of this industry.
Yeah, disturbing because of the insane amount of failures, but gratifying as that what goes out of the door -now and in the future is -very much GTG.
The big seller now is of course the KeyMod rail, which was standardized by Eric Kincel- who works for Bravo Company.
We have seven KM’s in service now. Three KM13’s, a KM10, two KM9’s, and a KM10 pistol.
all but one KM0 and the pistol are available as loaners for students
Paul saw the need to introduce upgraded parts for the AR FOW. These did not of course meet the MILSPEC, but exceeded it.
The first was the Gunfighter Charging Handle, which has been wildly successful. The OEM charging handle- and some very expensive aftermarket items- were proven to be deficient.
This enhances user operability as well as increases the strength of the charging handle.
Having had to suffer through the whims and whimsies of suppliers and a very volatile market, Bravo Company set out to make themselves less dependent on others.
To that end he now has Gunfighter pistol grips, vertical foregrips and buttstocks.
The stocks are exceptionally interesting. They are the lightest, and arguably the strongest stock available. We have been running three of them now and the feedback from students is positive.
The new upper and lower receivers will supplant the current models soon.
This independence ensures that it will be easier to ensure that the user community will continue to receive rock solid guns.
We once again had the opportunity to talk with all the good folks at Bravo Company about what they do and how they do it, something I try to do on every factory visit. The good companies allow or encourage this, and we learned a lot.
Bravo Company continues to grow. There are a lot of new items in the pipeline that will eventually come to fruition.
We’re looking forward to doing this again next year.
http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/bravo-company-factory-visit-30june-2014?reply=14106560182942720
No.
No.
No.
Depends on the variables.
No, not even close. I’m not even sure how you came up with that.
I thought MistWolf covered that and he did so replying to your post.
I read…
There are companies out there who are putting the term “mil spec” next to their manufactured (or purchased) part that has not been manufactured as part of any GSA schedule (is that the right terms?) or gov’t contract. Said parts may be manufactured to spec, however since there is no contract, there is no validation or vetting of the part on the military side, as in a first run or concept part, although it could be QA’d it may not be QA’d according to the actual spec.
His second reply: Bingo! There are companies out there who are manipulating that spec in an effort to cut cost. I expect this is done across almost all industries jay have human led companies who are manufactured parts that are controlled to a degree by human hands.
Thats how I understood it, so I might have a point wrong, but here’s how he answered that:
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Well what I actually hear you all saying is that the average consumer cannot actually know if a part is mil spec or not. You have to rely on the supplier/manufacturer to be telling you the truth and so therefore you have to trust your supplier to be telling you the truth (and you all have a very small set of suppliers/manufacturers that you trust).
What I do? I buy based on what I have experienced. When my experience falls short, which they often do as we are dealing with a combat rifle for the most part, I fall on the expertise of a select few members of this forum. I have never been led astray. Because they have never led me to a shady company. 99.9999% is the time it’s a combat proven part or optic or whatever, and even if the part for whatever reason is out of spec or has an issue the company I’m doing business with makes it right.
So it’s not really complicated in my book. Buy from people/companies who have a proven track record and rep. When you don’t as I have occasionally done, then you get to figure out on your own if you made a good decision or not in diverging from a known entity.
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Out of curiosity, what parts do you personally expect to be milspec on the AR15 you currently own?
I would expect all parts advertised as mil spec to be mil spec in terms of material and tolerances. I would expect the upper and lower receivers to be mil spec except were necessary to comply with the law regarding automatic capabilities. I would expect all small parts such as springs, plungers, pins and fire control to be mil spec if advertised as such and I would expect major assemblies to be properly assembled, staked and torqued as required.
What is the general thoughts on DPMS spare parts?
I must admit I fell prey to the “mil-spec” is mil-spec thing.
Even though DPMS guns are not “top tier” or well respected, I think their small parts are actually good quality.
At least one person who works for an AR manufacturer (who sells complete firearms under their own brand) told me that DPMS small parts are widely used in the industry by reputable AR manufacturers.
I assume DPMS is not a true manufacturer of small parts, and that they just sell some other companies’ small parts. But I could be wrong about that.
Joe Mamma