I am new to low powered magnified optics. In fact, I am new to magnified scopes mounted on AR’s. I have always went with Red Dots or Irons but I’ve recently decided to do a “Jack of All Trades” build and want to use a 1x4.
My main concern is mounting them. Where do I want the rear of the scope to end up? Should it be even with the charging handle or should it be a little more forward then that. Also, I want to be able to run a BUIS so I’m also concerned with clearance. Which 30mm mounts would you guys recommend that will give me clearance for a folding rear sight?
Lastly, I have my mind pretty much set on the Vortex PST however, I also hear good things about the SWFA SS which is $300 more. I’ve already read that the glass on both is comparable so what am I getting for an extra $300 besides FFP which arguably doesn’t really matter for low powered optics.
Where you place the scope is going to be up to your personal preference and the scope’s eye box. If you run the gun nose to charging handle you’re generally going to have the scope farther forward than if you run the stock all the way out. Some scopes also have a more forgiving eye box and give you a little more room to work with. Pretty much you will have to play around and find what works for you. As far as the scope clearing the BUIS, I can’t speak for the Vortex but I have a SWFA in a Bobro mount and it easily clears my Troy BUIS even with the Butler Creek covers on. I can’t say a whole lot about Vortex because I’ve never used one but I’ve liked what I’ve seen from the ones I’ve held and I plan on putting one on my 700. The only complaint I have about the SWFA is that it’s a little on the heavy side for a variable scope. On the other hand it feels like it’s built like a tank and can take some abuse. The reticle is really what sold me on the SWFA, I think it is one of the best designed low power reticles out there. Although, getting in on the preorder and saving a few hundred bucks may have also swayed my decision ;).
I know man…I’m having such a hard time swallowing this pill. I feel that at $800 I am over paying for the SS because I know that I could have gotten it at $600. I also know that if I wait a little longer, it will come back down to $600 on Black Friday.
What the others said about scope position. Have you considered offset irons? It doesn’t make sense to me to have to remove your scope to access backup sights. I am finishing up a do everything build and will mount KAC offsets when I can find them. GH
In regards to off-set irons, if I’m using a KMR handguard on this rifle, can’t I just mount a normal front sight at the 45 degree position on the KMR and use a offset rear sight in conjunction?
From my personal experience, I’m not sure you’ll be able to get the scope out front enough with proper eye relief to allow a rear BUIS to be folded up for use. I currently use a VIPER PST 1-4 and Burris XTR 1-4 and my eye relief positions both tubes over a BUIS preventing folding; which is why I use QD mounts. Same with a Burris TAC30 I used briefly. If you’re dead set on BUIS then yes, offset irons or a QD mount allowing the scope to be removed if inoperable may be your best options.
In my case, these are on 3-gun rifles so I am not running true BUIS anyways. I do run 45 degree offsets with the Burris and they work well.
I set my 1-4 up as my primary with a QD mount understanding I could not deploy my rear back up sight with my scope attached. In 30 years I’ve had exactly one scope go completely TU on me and that was a Monkey Ward one back in the '70’s. By TU I mean fogged over couldn’t see through.
If my Trijicon goes dark on me I’ll detach and deploy the BUIS. And use the the dead scope as a hammer. Here’s my setup:
Set your eye relief to be correct when in the prone position at max power.
Head position should be identical with both the optic and iron sights, NOT that the eye-relief will necessarily be the same.
Set your mount to equally support the front and rear tube/erector housing.
You want a scope mount that is 2.6 to 3 inches above bore (which will correspond to 1.5 to 1.9 inches above rail). Higher and you will have issues with cheek weld and offset; lower and you will have issues with neck strain/eye orientation, optical interference if you have anything mounted forward of the optic (front sight, ancillary aiming devices, lights, etc), and conflict with BUIS.
Offset rear sights need to be mechanically matched to their front counterpart, otherwise, you will most likely not be able to achieve any kind of usable zero.
I like the SWFA optics better than the Vortex. From adjustments to reticles, I find the SWFA optics in their low-power line to be more in-line with what works for me.
The best mounts are non-QD, but when your optic isn’t usable it doesn’t matter how good the mount is. Offset irons are not as easy to use as standard, and aren’t bilateral. You have to pick your poison when it comes to BUIS and mount compromise/balance. FWIW, my personal 7.62 has offset irons to compliment a 1-8x in a KAC hard-mount, my GP/instructing 5.56 has a fixed front and a rear folder under a low-powered variable in a BOBRO mount.
Jack, what do you think about your keymod mount sights offset on a 13" hand guard?? If I use your rail mounted offsets the front would be behind a 12:00 mounted WML. The distance between the sights in either case would’t be that much different. GH
