I bought mine as a curio piece… it seems to have charmed me into carrying it every day.
grade C PSP (one of the saxony trade in dealies)
I’ve concluded:
-it points more naturally for me than any pistol i’ve ever shot.
-it has an excellent trigger
-obscenely accurate-do your part, and all the bullet holes touch.
-the squeeze safety is good peace of mind, but also may slow my ability to fire in a high stress situation… training with it lots…
-very slim, easy to conceal and comfortable in the neutral cant MTAC i got for it-just as comfy/easy to conceal as a G26, but quicker to draw thanks to the full length grip
downsides:
-heel mag release-also maybe less likely to actuate by accident, and really not that slow of a release once you get used to it.
-parts availability… i feel like i just bought a vintage european car or something… even little springs are hard to get. i feel like i should save up for a spare pistol.
-mags-holy crap. 65 dollars.:mad:
-complexity… it’s not horrible, but i can detail strip and reassemble a glock in 3 minutes. I’m moderately afraid to take this thing apart… and i say that as an engineering student/former industrial maintenance mechanic. :o
I carry mine, but not regularly - it is a niche carry for me, usually when situation requires fitted formalwear - when Glock-19 is a bit too thick and 1911 is a bit too large. I also use it for purposes of understanding AIWB carry - I feel it is very safe in this, or any mode - although P7 is somewhat of a double-edged sword here.
I agree on most of your points. I think trigger could have a shorter reset. As far as dissasembly, two points: 1) it is doable 2) don’t do it. I take my Glock apart and field-strip 1911s at will, and I don’t want to go through P7 again. Importantly, in 5 years owning one, I found no need other than curiousity.
My biggest issue with it is a unique manual of arms that, IN MY OPINION, contradicts conventional aspects of pistol draw and presentation. Again, in case I was too subtle - it is only my opinion, and I am nobody.
I stopped carrying them a few years back in favor of a P30. The only reason I could give is that I was concerned about parts availability.
They are the only guns that I have ever been afraid to take apart so I don’t blame you one bit.
Mine have a special place in my memories, and in my safe now. My son will have to decide what to do with them many years from now. Until then, they’re safe queens.
The P7 is a niche carry piece for me, as well. It is a great pistol that still has its place, though I’m more likely to have a 1911 on me from day-to-day.
I overcame the dreaded detail strip issues many years ago. There are two techniques for this: (1) have another P7 on hand, and don’t disassemble both at the same time, and (2) take good detail photos of both sides with the grips off before you attempt anything. Until you are familiar with the process, doing both is a good idea, as even the Armorer’s Manual will leave you scratching your head.
it’s defintely not 100% natural to squeeze the front of the grip as you draw.
I also have messed this aspect up while practicing. I’m feeling fairly confident with it now though.
It’s basically replaced my G26 as my EDC gun to school. (colorado state reverts to state law on issues of CCW). I’m faster with this gun than i am with a glock 26 from a holster. I also shoot it better. I feel the long sight radius and exceptional accuracy might also be a benefit in a virginia tech type scenario, where the attacker is likely to be outside of the usual 21 foot range of civilian gunfights…
thank you all for talking me out of a detail strip.
as far as parts availability, i’m not going to sell my glocks, or the things they are carried in… so i have plenty of backups.
doesn’t one of the industry pro guys carries an M8 every day still? i forget who…
I fooled around with a P7M8 for a year (1992 I think). It was a good pistol and since I have small hands, I preferred it to the Beretta 92s and SIG 226s that everyone else just had to have.
I never had to take it apart as my local smith was also an Hk armorer so I was more than happy to let him clean my pistol.
What I do remember vividly was that the P7 can get hot really fast. Three or four magazines would usually be enough for me to lock the slide back and let the pistol sit on the bench for a while.
I traded the gun for a Rolex Submariner. After encountering the Glocks, I felt little need to locate another P7.
EDC in a Minatour that I think doesn’t quite lock it up as well as I’d like, but it has never been a problem.
The whole squeeze cock thing I think is just head trash. To me you are going to draw the gun and if you grip it correctly, you are going to depress the action when you bring your second hand into the grip and extend. The squeeze cock is only 10 or so pounds, right?
The P7 was my first carry gun, before I took any real training or received a fundamental understanding of gunfighting.
The ironic thing about the P7 is that the design intent was driven by the same ultra-liability minded bureaucracy that seems to frustrate most Mil/LEO types on these forums. The squeeze cocker, while elegant and interesting, really only provides theoretical benefits as opposed to significant real-world advantages.
Sure, there is a story running around of a NJ Trooper dropping his weapon and the bad guy picks it up and can’t work the P7. Great - if you are relying on something mechanical to prevent your weapon being used against you, you’ve got bigger problems.
In the end, I sold the P7. Part of me seriously regrets this; as a curiosity and interesting piece of engineering, it is a fantastic piece of kit. I sent mine off to Tripp Research for a matt hard chrome job and it was the ultimate BBQ gun; between the sexy looks and the interesting manual of arms and the HK brand, all my non-gun friends SWOONED over it.
What drove me to sell it:
A Glock 19 carries almost as well with double the capacity.
Parts are a nightmare to source.
Significant training with it is impossible because of the heat issue.
Magazines are stupid expensive.
The Kahr P9 carries better, weighs less and is functionally the same; not as nice a trigger, but perfectly fine for self defense.
I do miss occasionally detail stripping the P7 though. Sort of like polishing boots in being a relaxing experience. Once you figure it out, it isn’t so bad.
Activating squeezer gets really easy real fast.
The issue I was referring to usually stirs ****storm in P7 discussions; it has to do with timing - when to squeeze it upon presentation.
Every credible firearms instructor I had a privilege to train under taught two things (amongst many others): 1. The strong hand position and grip have to be finalized while gun is still in holster 2. In pistols equipped with safety, that safety comes off after gun clears the holster and at least partially indexed on target.
Due to unique properties of P7 family, those two are mutually exclusive - which has led to many arguments on “how and why”…
My P7M13 is the best gun I own. Hands down!.. even against my old P220.
It would just be so dang hard to replace if something happened to it so it lives in the safe. Only to be taken out and fondled and shot and oiled. I wish I could afford to get another one… then I would just carry this one and say to hell with all the Glock vs Sig vs HK vs 1911 vs M&P!
Once opon a time, I carried my P7M13 but was never happy with my holster selection and the short barrel combined with the grip heaviness of the 13 rds made for a feeling of the grip moving away from my body. With todays better kydex offerings this maybe a non-issue, and with a M8 this was probably never the case.
personally i find that squeezing while rotating the gun from holster (down) to target (front) i can work in a nice squeeze. with IWB carry i find it a bit difficult to “finalize” the grip in the holster, my thumb generally doesn’t fit between me and the gun comfortably. so it is maybe a hybrid technique, and god help the man that takes gunfighting advice from my sheltered ass, but it works for me.
carb cleaner has been my method.
trying to find the dimensions of a carbon scraper. I’m gonna draw something up and send it to the waterjet company that sponsors our formula SAE team… wish i still had access to a waterjet… :mad:
i definitely prefer glock for high volume shooting… easy to clean and the lower is all nice cool plastic. :eek:
if you throw a glove on your right hand 150+ round range sessions with the p7 aren’t so bad…
- it is only my opinion, and I am nobody.
