I have been reading a lot of other gun forums as of late and I am constantly seeing people mis-understand what mil-spec or mil-standard means and why it is good and or bad.
To some manufacturers the term “mil-spec” means crappy parts that are poorly assembled. This is not accurate.
To break it down as simply as possible, think of the Military Standard as the BASE LINE for how a FIGHTING WEAPON is to be built. What does “base line” mean? Well it means that it is the LOWEST quality that is ACCEPTABLE (per the US Govt) to how a weapon can be made. If you go above the “base line” you are doing well, but to go below that mark is a HUGE no no.
The next question we see is “why do I care about mil-spec on my varmint gun?” The answer is that we do not. A varmint gun really has a different agenda from a fighting gun and you really do not need to be all the concerned if it doesn’t stack up well against the Technical Data Package (TDP).
What is most amusing to me is when manufacturers charge you a lot of money, claim that their weapons are for “serious use”, but yet don’t meet the MINIMUM .Gov standards that the TDP lays out.
So let us assume for a moment that you want to buy a fighting weapon (that you will depend your life on). What are some of the things you should look for that will help to ensure reliability and quality? Here is the short list:
Barrel Steel: 4150ORD, 4150SUL or CMV
Bolt Steel: 154 Carpenter
High pressure testing: Both bolt and barrel
Magnetic Particle Inspection: Both bolt and barrel
Barrel Extension: M4
Upper Receiver: M4
Gas key: Properly Staked
Castle Nut: Properly Staked
Receiver Extension: Mil-Spec 7071 impact extrusion
Buffer: H, H2 or H3 (depending on barrel length and type of gas system)
Gas port size for a Carbine: .063
FSB: Rated for flat top (F stamped)
Chrome Lining: Yes
Twist rate: 1/7 (handles everything from 55gr to 80gr well)
Chamber: 556 NATO
Grant,
I gotta play devil’s advocate here and say that those varmint guns are going to be doing way more killing than my “fighting guns” ever will.
For the training/paper puncher guys I think a varmint quality build would be more appropriate. The only thing they have to worry about is embarrassment in front of the class when their gun jams.
The varmint guys and gamers are the ones who really don’t use “fighting guns” at all, and usually use specialized weapons. Ironically it is these people who would benefit most from a reliable weapon. (i.e higher scores, more kills)
Just thought that was a little something to think about…
Ground hogs don’t shoot back. So if your varmint gun fails, it matters not. Remember that you train for the worst and hope for the best. You build the best quality AR you can and hope you NEVER have to pull the trigger.
For the training/paper puncher guys I think a varmint quality build would be more appropriate. The only thing they have to worry about is embarrassment in front of the class when their gun jams.
People that attend training put a lot of rounds through their weapons in a rough manner. A “varmint” grade AR will not last. Spend $700 for a class and another $400-$600 in ammo + food + lodging and let me know if you want your AR to go down or malfunction a lot.
The varmint guys and gamers are the ones who really don’t use “fighting guns” at all, and usually use specialized weapons. Ironically it is these people who would benefit most from a reliable weapon. (i.e higher scores, more kills)
Just thought that was a little something to think about…
Serious 3 gunners that compete use quality components as they do not want their guns to go down as they will lose the match.
There’s a whole history of where BM, RRA, etc. fall short on several items on this list, but where do they fall WRT gas port diameters? Are they spec? If not, how much over or under?
Not even close. They all use LARGE gas ports (.068-.073). Reason? Because they expect their customers to use the cheapest (read under pressured) ammo they can find and they don’t want to get complaints about their AR’s not cycling. The issue is that when their customers DO use Mil-Spec pressured ammo, they are beating the guns to death (breaking bolts, bolt override, hard recoil, etc).
So Grant, what companies do you find stick closest to the TDP? I’m assuming Colt and BCM are at the top? How far off are other big names such as Noveske?
Good write-up. TOS has a thread similiar to this lately, and it made me want to gouge my eyes out. Or at least pour salt on them. :rolleyes:
Read Rob’s chart. It clearly shows who follows the TDP the closest (for complete weapons). If we are going to look at just uppers, LMT and BCM are tied for position one (IMHO).
The terms get over-used in all kinds of discussions. I was recently participating in a discussion on another forum about the function of 9mm AR magazines and one guy mentioned that the mags will work fine in a “milspec upper and lower”. AFAIK there is no such thing when referring to the 9mm AR.
Thanks. I was under the impression that everyone knew that tier 3 AR’s use large gas ports so they could feed crap ammo better. I guess I was wrong.
My favorite thing to see is when someone takes an AR with a large gas port and then puts a suppressor on it! Talk about some serious recoil. I often wonder how the buffer does not get blown out the back of the receiver extension.
What about Colt, or are you omitting them because of availability?
From what I know I would think that if the respective manufacturers’ bolt were used with the uppers than the leaders would be Colt and BCM, with the LMT being a close second (due to straight vs taper pins), probably right along with the Noveske N4 (due to blue buffer and batch tested bolts).
Not saying that you are wrong, just curious about your answer.
I seriously wish there was some way you could have a “psychic moment” or something, and realize all the tidbits of information that you (or other’s more knowledgable than I) take for granted, that lots of people may not know.
I’ve been around the AR/M platform for over 20 years (granted a large chunk has been with company guns), but I never had a clue about the different gas port sizes. Also, I recently learned for the first time about how you take the collapsible buttstock itself off the extension (until then I thought you had to remove the extension).
I would like to thank you for sharing that information, and encourage you to share any other tidbits such as that, that you may think “everyone knows”.
Left Colt out as I only wanted to list companies that sell uppers (alone). We all know that Colt’s complete AR’s are king, but they do not offer just uppers.
Roger that. Working with these weapons day in and day out makes you think that everyone knows the same amount as you do. I also hate to talk down to people so I try not to cover/explain what I classify as the simple stuff as people will assume I am just talking to hear myself talk.
Here is a quick list of companies that I know for a fact that use the .063 (or close to it) gas port size:
LMT
Colt
BCM
Noveske (14.5 N4)
S&W (later models)
I would give the benefit of the doubt to Charles Daly as well as they know what they are doing.
Regarding ammo, Mk262, M855 and XM193 are NATO-pressure level, so those loads should work hand-in-glove with the .063 sized port. But they beat the crap out of BMs/RRAs since they run larger ports.
Wolf is down on the pressure scale and it may have problems with these ports, but because BM/RRA/et al drill their ports larger, this ammo will work in those barrels.
Where does other ammo fall in line pressure wise? BH ball, Win White Box, Amer Eagle, TAP? Are those loaded to SAAMI spec, in which case that would be a better match for a BM/RRA than a NATO-spec load?
