I purchased a new ADS Basic a few weeks ago. I have had the chance to shoot a few hundred rounds through it and have experienced short stroking with some specific ammunition. I will cut to the case for those that don’t care about the details:
When I went to clean the carbine I noticed some rust colored splatter around the gas block on the barrel. I have included some pictures for a better description. I am still relatively new to the platform, but isn’t this a sign of gas leakage (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=138)? I have not yet experienced any problems with higher quality ammo, but as I carry this rifle on patrol with me, any potential problem has me concerned.
So my question is, should I even be sweating this? I have emailed ADS and called (had to leave a message) and have not heard back in a few days.
Pics (the spatter looks white in the photos, but is orange/rust colored when seen by the eye):
For those that are interested:
For my first range trip the only ammo I had on hand was some VERY cheap Monarch lacquer coated stuff, a little less cheap brass cased Monarch (both from Academy Sports), some of the lacquer coated “Military Classic” Wolf (all 55 grain) and some Federal 64 gr. TRU. Yes, I need to update my selection of ammo.
I ran 300 rounds of the mixed cheap stuff. The brass cased Monarch caused significant short stroking. I had to cycle the bolt by hand every other round. It was also ejecting very weakly, but it would eject the spent case every time. It just wouldn’t pick up a new round very often. The ammo was noticeably underpowered and inconsistent (some rounds hotter than others). Ironically, the super cheap lacquer coated Monarch and Wolf both ran acceptably well. Each would short stroke a round or two every other magazine if I didn’t hold the gun tight in my shoulder. If I held it loosely it would short stroke with that ammo nearly every time. I got plenty of immediate action drills in! Just to be sure I switched back to the Federal 64 gr. TRU and ran a couple magazines without issues.
On my most recent range trip, I fired 50 rounds of Federal TRU 64gr, 200 rounds of Remington 55gr FMJ, and 40 rounds of Monarch cheap brass cased 55gr FMJ. I had short stroking on nearly every round with the Monarch, but no issues with the Remington or Federal.
second, IIRC the ADS rifles come with an H buffer. which will make crappy ammo seem even crappier by increasing the amount of short strokes. try out a regular carbine buffer, see if that changes anything. but then go back to the H buffer after you have shot up all that monarch garbage.
third…seep some CLP or another protecting, penetrating oil around your gas block. it is not unusual for SMALL amounts of corrosion to weep from around the FSB, especially on rifles that are not parked under the FSB (i dont know if ads is or not). it is not an issue. i have a few LMT uppers that all do it. its a DI gas system, not SCUBA gear…it doesnt need to be hermetically sealed.
WOLF steel cased 55gr is about the lowest “power” i would go and still expect a good carbine to function 100%.
It’s really a waste of time shooting junk ammo. You have no way of telling if you’re experiencing rifle problems or not.
I’m leaning towards the ammo being the problem. If the rifle will run something like REM UMC ammo, which is pretty mildly loaded, then I would say you’re probably fine.
If it were me, I’d like to see it run some UMC and then some XM193 to cover the spectrum of mild to hot ammo. If it runs both of those, you’re probably fine.
Yep, guys. I was convinced that the short stroking I have experienced is ammo related. That’s why I didn’t worry about it until I noticed the “leakage.” Now I am wondering if I have a problem.
After digging a bit a more on this site I am staying away from lacquer coated stuff, but I will continue to seek out cheap ammo to practice with. If it causes short stroking every now and again, then I get more immediate action drills in. Sounds like a win-win to me. Well, within reason. I will no longer buy the Monarch brass coated stuff. Although I value training experience, I have no interest a single shot AR. For all that are not aware, I believe Monarch is complete crap. But it is cheap. It (brass ceased Monarch) ran just fine in my old RRA middy, which I would expect from just about any middy.
I have put several hundred rounds of quality ammo through the ADS with no issues, so I am certainly not putting the gun in the safe just yet. But this is obviously no stress test. I wanted to bounce this off the more experienced members to see if this is something I should be worried about.
ARin,
The ADS carbines do not come with an H buffer (unless they have changed in the last month). I did have one put in the gun. That is another reason I was not worried until I noticed the splatter.
I plan on doing a class this year with nothing but quality ammo. I will also let my next range trip include nothing but quality stuff.
Often times, we see crap ammo run just fine in RRA, DPMS, BM, etc, but will not run in Colt, LMT, ADS, Noveske, BCM, etc. The reason for this is because the first three companies use gas ports around .069. The last four companies generally have gas ports around .063.
The lower tier AR manufacturers ASSume that their customers are going to run the cheapest ammo available so to avoid frequent customer calls about short stroking, they use larger gas ports. The upper tier AR manufacturers ASSume that their customers are going to use mil-spec ball (at worst) and use smaller gas ports so that their weapons are not over gassed.
All things equal, a rifle gas system SHOULD be more reliable. Although some of the import ammo out there now can even make the rifles choke and short stroke.
I don’t get it. Making good ammo is just not that hard.
It is only more reliable from an extraction standpoint, underpowered ammo hurts us 20" fans more than the M4 guys. Hence why I was so stoked to see that my Sabre will feed Wolf 55gr MC crap pretty reliably, if I don’t mind it not locking the bolt back on an empty mag now and again.
I do not think that this is acceptable. If a customer has an issue with a product, they deserve a response, regardless of how simple or irrelevant the question may be.
For all that are not aware, I believe Monarch is complete crap. But it is cheap. It (brass ceased Monarch) ran just fine in my old RRA middy, which I would expect from just about any middy.