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If you are using your carbine for home defense, get the Vortex. You don’t want to blind yourself shooting at a bad guy.
There are other ways to control recoil. The Spikes ST-T2 buffer is one of those. It eliminates the bounce back in the buffer. Your grip on the fore arm is another way.
For a precision gun or target/competition gun, I would go PWS. For a multi-use fighting gun, I’d use a FH. I put the Blackout on mine.
ETA: I wasn’t aware we did the pie thing here. I thought that was TOS thing.
I have been told by several that the FSC556 reduces flash nearly as much as the vortex. How much difference is there really?
http://www.primaryweapons.com/UserFiles/Media/FSC556_web.wmv
Not much flash from the looks of it in this vid.
If you are using a carbine for home defense then you should probably be using a light as well. White light bouncing off the walls will probably be more blinding than the muzzle flash that the PWS unit will create. I’d be more concerned about the muzzle blast and concussion that the PWS unit will create than the flash.
I use a PWS FSC556-NT4 for my rifle and it is amazing how flat it shoots. I have shot it at dusk and have yet to notice any problems with muzzle flash.
There are significant flash differences between 5.56 ammo and .223 commercial ammo due to flash retardants. I don’t trust what I see in videos unless I shoot it myself.
Ditto… If you will use it for home defense go with the Vortex. Otherwise I personally went for the PWS, but that is because I shoot at the range. When I do people next to me get pissed off because of the noise and such. I imagine, in a shtf situation, in a hallway without hearing protection it would get pretty nasty. If you are going to take classes then your fellow classmates would like you to use the vortex. ![]()
While gadgets that truly enhance performance are wonderful; remember, it’s a 5.56, folks.
The muzzle flip is not a big deal and skills development through training is an effective way to manage recoil. Sure, a good brake’s elimination of recoil will make us all giggle – but from a purely tactical perspective, flash mitigation and concussion reduction are more important – since skillset development CANNOT mitigate those two factors.
In contrast, we can learn to manage recoil and muzzle flip.
For competition or leisure, flash and concussion just aren’t a issues – so have it. If your gun is for racing, or you live alone (or maybe you’ve evolved into a true war machine with bioengineered earflaps that close with high decibels), a muzzle brake could be for you – since you can get definitely shoot fast and stay on target with one.
If you’re on a team and you run a muzzle brake, we might beat you with a bar of soap wrapped in a towel. ![]()
Good point, training can mitigate one, not the other, set of obstacles. I had read and heard that PWS offered a lot of flash suppression, but apparently significantly less than the Vortex.
Flash can be a big deal – and sometimes, it isn’t. Daytime assaults and flashing aren’t a big deal. Concussion, on the other hand, blows big time regardless of environmental illumination.
When it comes to flash hiders, it’s really hard to beat the A2. The only reason to change it is for adapting for a sound suppressor, IMHO.
Further, ammunition selection for flash suppression is just as important. M193 with its flash retardants will have orange pops, compared to the white fireballs that come with commercial .223 ammunition. So if flash is a major consideration, run military grade 5.56 ammo for flash mitigation.
Also, when it comes to muzzle brakes – they have their own cottage industry, rife with bold claims and hyperbolic performance. Still, they all seem to work pretty well to mitigate TWO of the four factors discussed, but never concussion and rarely, flash.
In a perfect world, I want a comp that will mitigate all four issues. I might even know a few folks working on that very project ;). Until then, I know I can train to manage 5.56 recoil and muzzle flip, while I cannot train away concussion or flash. Therefore, for a team – we run A2s or SF 212As for those who need adaptation to sound suppressors.
From a team perspective, it’s the concussion which is often the most objectionable.
So, if you’re not part of a team – enjoy your brake!
I shot the PWS FSC556 and a friend shoots it all the time. He also has the Vortex and we both have had A2s at one point.
You won’t be blinding yourself from the PWS FSC556. The flash suppression is quite good but not as good as the Vortex. Honestly you won’t notice the difference unless you are looking directly at the muzzle and the difference isn’t something I would worry about in the day or in doors. At night though if you don’t want to be detected I think the Vortex is better. If you don’t want to lose night vision, either works.
You will notice that the concussion and volume is louder with the PWS. I’ve heard it w/o ears and it is surprisingly not as bad as the concussion made it out to be. I now use a PWS TTO and a friend uses the FSC556 and we don’t notice the concussion anymore. I can see people that want to be annoyed have a reason to be annoyed if you are shooting on the range. My friend went to a training class and they were stacked like sardines, he reports that he did not get any complaints from anyone there. It may be that its not bad when you are standing directly next to someone. I was standing at a 45 deg angle behind my friend and I was getting hit by the concussion. I decided to move behind him because I just didn’t want to feel it… I was tired hot and sweating and quite miserable already. So yes the concussion can be annoying but it doesn’t blow you out the door. You also get a slight poof in the face but it seems normal after a while.
Worried that the concussion would lead to a huge dust cloud, I shot it urban prone in a desert environment. I was expecting to see a bunch of sand and dust kicking everywhere but have yet to experience that. I have shot dozens of mags worth urban prone with the FSC556 and the PWS TTO. Neither have caused any visual problems yet to my surprise.
The difference in muzzle rise however is night and day. I had my red dot on a steel target at 50yds and it never drifted out of it through rapid fire while I was standing. With my A2 my red dot would jump out under rapid fire. However, the biggest difference in muzzle rise was in the supine position and reaction side shooting where I am not that great in controlling the gun. Also follow up shots while on the move are really nice, I am faster and have less fliers.
I think the argument for being able to train away muzzle rise is valid and I don’t want to debate it. However I feel if you are that good with muzzle rise you will be that much better with a break. If you had almost no significant muzzle rise when you shot, I bet you could punch out a clover leaf at 35yds standing in under a second with a break. If you can do that now w/o a break then make a youtube video and you can be up there with Tom Knapp and Jerry Miculek. ![]()
I can see for competition shooting or perhaps something that requires really quick follow up shots you would go with the FSC556 hands down. But if you need to be as undetectable as possible you might want to go with the Vortex for the most minimal signature at night.