Sling Theory?

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

I’m trying to get a grip on the various theories of sling use on the AR Platform. I’ve experimented with a couple mounting techniques, but am really operating in the dark on this. I’d really like my sling to function as both holding my rifle and enhancing my ability to hold steady for accurate shots.

In the 2 point world, I’ve observed the Viking Tactics mount attached to the top/rear of the buttstock and a position close the hand/FSB near the front of the rail. Opposite that seems to be mounting points near the front and rear of the receiver.

Single point seems to be its own animal. Same for three point, which is of no interest at all to me.

So, Thanks to you experts who can clue me in!

2

My experience though your may vary. When I was downrange i always had a weapon attached single point. I experimented with different lengths and attachments and will attempt to explain what happened.

Gear Sector GEN II ASPV - Attached to the swivel mount on a vltor mount. Sling attaches to molle webbing quick detach buckle.

Pluses: Good transition from primary to secondary weapon. Easy to get in and out of vehicle. better than two point sling for to the shoulder and low ready.

Neg: Not comfortable for periods of time. Weighs on the shoulder too much. Off hand shooting is non existent. You would have to unbuckle then rebuckle. Would get caught when traversing obstacles.

Spec Ops Mamba Sling- Attaches without extra gear, customizable to wearer.

Pluses: Better than without, could be thrown around the back when traversing obstacles. Easy to low ready carry.

Negatives: Awkward to use. Not very comfortable to long periods of time. Very difficult to transitions to offhand shooting. Got caught up on other gear.

Magpul Multi Mission Sling - Multi attachment, single or regular sling, adjustable. I used a vltor quick detach plate.

Pluses: Comfortable for long periods of time due to how the weapon sits and how the sling positions the weight of it. Adjustability is a plus, easy transition to offhand shooting. Can be changed from a single point to a regular sling for traversing obstacles. quick detach. I really cannot say enough good things about this sling

Neg: Coatings on the attachments come off but hardware is a bronze color. Quick detach cord need lengthened. I macramed a new one.

Now, I like what works and there are many I have an interest in trying specifically the vickors combat application sling.

Though again it is what works and the magpul sling works very well for me. I doubt that I will change it out. It is again what works and does it well. Good luck…:big_boss:

3

@ OP - the two things I have bought and discarded the most have been holsters and slings. I put these in the same category with regard to finding the one that works…for you. Finally within the last year someone made a perfect holster (for me). It will take trial and error on your part.
@ Red, I am with you on the Magpul sling and the Vickers sling. My solution was I combined the two for a hybrid. Took the Mag apart and used the end attachments and loop end and attached the Vickers sling as the long end that I can adjust easily when in the 2 point “mode”. A forward attachment point allows the Magpul gator end to still be used when 2 point is desired. Still works great in single point also attached to the ASAP. Somewhat of an expensive solution, but it works for me.

4

Mostly, I’m interested in the “why’s” of the various attachment points.

For example, why would one choose to attach the sling towards the muzzle end of the rail instead of the receiver end? Or visa versa?

Why would one choose to attach the ends of the sling relatively close together (on either end of the receiver) vs. spread out to the extremities?

If I can get a grasp on the why’s, I can then experiment with techniques that serve my purpose for a sling (stability for the most part).

For the record, I have a Viking Tactics/LaRue 2 point that I like, but I’d like to get some input on how to most effectively use this, or another, sling.

Thanks!

5

The “why” is generally going to be personal preference. You may see different setups run by guys in the same unit performing the same mission. It will boil down to what works for you. Just b/c one guy does it for one reason does not translate into that configuration working for you at all. Also, setups change over time and what one runs with now may not be what is run with later. Sling placement, as kit, evolves. The easiest way to start the process would be to pick a setup, run it in a class, see if it works, and if not, hopefully be able to change while in the class so you can get a good shakedown. Go with the config. you have now and get the ball rolling.

6

I use a VCAS 2 point, but in a different way than I see others in my area use it. I connect the rear QD to the right side of the stock in the rear, and the front QD on the left side of the forend (front or rear will work). The sling goes over my left shoulder and under my right arm. I can cinch it up tight for carry on the right side, or let it out halfway to carry in front.

I can shoulder the carbine strong side with it let out halfway. Letting it out all the way allows me to switch to the off side shoulder, without changing hands or dropping the muzzle. In this manner, switching shoulders takes about half a second.

While shouldered strong side, simply running the support hand inside the sling from underneath and re-gripping the forend allows use of the sling for support. Simply move the elbow forward, in, or out to apply tension to the sling. The sling needs to wrap around the forearm with the strap crossing just in front of the elbow to apply tension correctly. Going from freehand to sling supported takes about a second and a half, and returning to freehand about half that. Most of that second and a half is properly positioning the sling strap just in front of the elbow. As an added bonus, applying tension to the sling pulls the buttstock into the shoulder.

I’ve tried several other options, but this one works more quickly and just as effectively as other methods, if not more so. I’m headed out to the range on Friday. I’ll try to shoot a quick video demonstrating this technique.

7

glocktogo,
how do you alleviate the issue of the sling buckles getting caught in between your shoulder and the stock? Does that happen to you? Mine is set up the same way, and everytime im shooting with time from the low ready and shoulder, the buckles are in the way.

8

I’ve not actually had that happen. When I shoulder from the low ready, the buckles naturally fall under my arm. Even with the sling fully cinched. FWIW, I’m using Vltor EMod stocks, which do not have rotation limiters.

9

I read in Kyle Lamb’s book that he recommends placing the sling attachment points at the furthers ends of the rifle. End of the butt stock and at the front sight post area.

I’ve found that it does seem to carry the rifle with the most comfort there but I still position my front sling swivel point on the rear of the RAS by the receiver. The reason I do so is that it keeps the sling out of the way for me when I place my offhand forward at the end of the rail to guide the muzzle. In addition to that it frees up that forward section of rail space for me to QD on a Surefire M1 IR light for night shooting.

I do agree with Kyle’s thoughts on the rear most position on the butt stock for the sling. That seems to offer me the most control when moving as far as keeping the rifle where I want it to stay across me. I’ve also found that during pistol transitions it prevents the butt stock from occasionally contacting my chin when moving.

I usually use a Vicker’s sling. But I do have a Magpul MS2 that I’ve played with as well.

AppalachianTactical did you post pics of your modification on here a ways back? I recall seeing it if that was you. Wouldn’t mind seeing the pics again if you’ve got them handy.

10

I decided to put my Spec Ops sling onto my 30.30 this year for hunting to really put it through a test. I still hunt in very difficult terrain.

My observation in this environment was that it was easy to move through difficult environments with, it was quick to bring to the shoulder, and honestly sat perfectly for what I was doing. The biggest down side is what Red mentioned: It becomes extremely uncomfortable after slogging for about a mile or two. After six hours of moving, you wont be happy. I figured out a way to shift the weight, but it still was a major discomfort.

I just bought The Ares two point sling for my AR and so far i like it a lot. I haven’t really tested the hell out of it yet.

11

Generally (in regards to 2-pt slings)…

I think that spreading the sling out to the “extremities” tends to offer more stability/support. While moving them in tends to offer more mobility.

I personally like the VTAC (Viking) slings on a QD mount at the castle nutt. This allows me to loosen the sling with the quick adjust and switch to support side “on the fly” (without removing the sling). With the little I’ve played with them this didn’t seem possible with the VCAS (Vickers) and it doesn’t work when mounting to the stock.

On my “go to” rifle I also use a QD swivel on the front in the provided mounts on the DD Omega rails. My others are on a BFG UWL on the FSB. In both cases it’s more of a matter of convenience up front than anything functional. The UWL further forward seems to be a little more supportive. While the QD swivel further back on the DD rail seems to offer a little more mobility.

I prefer the FSB/castle nutt set-up. But the front mount isn’t as big of an issue for me as the rear.

12

Experiment first, and then you’ll create your OWN list of “why’s”. Everyone has their own personal reasons for slinging up the way they do. Try different things and you’ll come up with YOUR preferred method based on YOUR criteria.

Sometimes, the gun itself drives the mounting soution (like the SCAR). Sometimes it has to do with the shooters dominant hand (or cross-dominance in my case).

13

Here you go, cobbled together but it works…for me anyway :cool: Been lazy about the 100mph tape replacement with a better solution, but it replaces easily.

14

Coming from the .mil side, our adjustable two-point slings (I never saw a single point sling in use by any of my peers) were ‘generally’ mounted on the top of, or through the rear sling slots of a typical car/M4 buttstock, and in front where ever it does not interfere with your support hand grip/light/laser actuation.

The caveat with mounting the front portion of the sling closer to the magwell/barrel nut, is that the weapon does not cinch up as stable if you attempt to tighten the sling up on your persons. (For example, when going two hands off the weapon). Therefore, I preferred to strike a balance between the sling being mounted out of the way of my support hand grip but not so far back that I gave up the control the sling would have if I went hands-off.

Some good general summations are here:http://www.centuriontraininggroup.org/site/images/pdfs/vickers_on_carbine_slings.pdf

-http://www.kyledefoor.com/2010/07/build-gun-around-you-not-you-around-gun.html

-http://www.youtube.com/user/vikingtactics?blend=2&ob=4#p/c/B9CD7E8B024760BE

-http://www.youtube.com/user/vikingtactics?blend=2&ob=4#p/c/B9CD7E8B024760BE/7/BRDfpz1OKaQ

15

i too am very interested in this subject. I’m currently running just a standard single point with no bungie and it is very uncomfortable. I have seen pics of people running slings that “look” like its helping them support the muzzle end during shooting. Is this right? or does it just look that way…If it is possible to get extra support when firing which setup is it? I would like to try a 2point with the rear attached to my DD swivel at the rear of the receiver and the front attached on the rail somewhere but don’t think ive ever seen that as i always see the rear attached to the butt stock.

16

That’s it! Clever and cool idea.

17

My sling du jour is designed by Savvy Sniper and distributed by Emerging Tactical Solutions. It is a hybrid sling that can be configured as an adujustable single point or two point sling without the long tail, as well as overengineered hardware. Their QD version can be mounted on the stock socket or the receiver end plate, and the front can mount with with a QD or HK clip. As an instructor it helps to be able to role model multiple techniques with just one sling. My SEAL buddy, Craig Sawyer, turned me onto them.

We are also designing our own that you might like…

18

This is, IMHO, one of those topics that can be discussed to death only to find that NONE of the discussion applies to you. Especially when you consider that many people’s experience with slings is very limited to maybe 2-5, that some will choose and champion a sling based on criteria other than actual use, and that many find it hard to admit that their first choice wasn’t ideal.

However, this doesn’t mean that you can’t learn something from the collective. For example, the two-point quick adjust is by far the most common design, and the Viking Tactics and BFG Vickers are by far the two most common adjustable two-points. Pick one of the two and start using it.

In terms of attachment points, there tends to be four; two for the front, two for the rear. In anther thread they were labeled:
A) front - furthest forward possible on the rail or at the FSB
B) front - furthest rearward possible at the barrel nut
C) rear - furthest forward possible at the castle nut
D) rear - furthest rearward possible at the slot or QD near the butt pad

There are pros and cons to each one. As mentioned above:
A/D tends to give you the most control over the gun, and if using the VTAC sling there are ways to cinch it up to use as a shooting aid. This configuration tends to be the closest approximation to a traditional carry-strap or shooting-aid sling.
B/C tends to give you the most flexibility and maneuverability without the sling getting in the way or choking you. This configuration tends to be the closest approximation to a single-point sling in terms of lateral transitions, etc.

Then there’s folks that like the A/C and the B/D. These tend to be based on lessons learned actually running the gun. Combinations are dictated by method of transition to handgun, how you prefer to carry the gun and why, etc. and the topic doesn’t stop simply at position but also which side of the gun you attach to.

My strong suggestion is to buy a VTAC or a VCAS, attach it to the gun, and get out and shoot. The only way you are going to figure out what works best for you is by figuring out what works best for you in use.

Sidebar:
I personally found the MS2/ASAP combination to be one of the worst slings I’ve ever used. Too-soft material that was too thin to begin with and tends to roll up and get even thinner, not to mention pilling and fraying. Hardware that was excessively difficult to use and with finish that came off just from looking at it. However I found the CONCEPT of switching from one-point to two-point very intriguing and like others above modified a BFG VCAS sling to work in a similar fashion but with better materials and hardware and I LOVE that design.

19

Well said, and many thanks to you all!

…shooting the gun…!

20

I second that in a big way. I used a MS2 on a relatively lightweight rifle for a carbine class. By the end of day 1 that rifle felt like it weighed 20 pounds when slung. I had exactly the same experience with the thin narrow webbing rolling up in an uncomfortable way.

In a more general way, I don’t like the lack of control that single points afford for movement with the rifle slung, such as when transitioning to a pistol and moving.

Currently I have a padded VTAC and I love it.