the MK 25 made by SIG USA is not used by the SEALs… that is the bullshit clone version they sell to hsld civilians
that’s like saying the Mk23 available on the market today is the same as used by SOCOM… its not… and there are distinct differences…
simply slapping on a UID label and claiming the internals are phosphated doesn’t mean its the real deal…
Again, what’s your source? Do you work for SIG or NSW? If the Mk25 isn’t being issued at NSW, then why are some SEALs complaining that the MK25, which has a 1913 rail instead of the standard P226R’s rail, of not fitting into their holsters without the Surefire? The Mk25’s coming from the factory DO have phosphated internals, just like NSW’s guns. That’s coming from the ones I have seen and from other owners of Mk25’s.
Now, do the ones destined for NSW get a little more TLC? MAYBE. But EVERY contract is different and requires certain quality control, or certain amount of rounds fired with duty ammo etc etc. The Glock that you buy at the LGS is not the same G22 that CAG gets, or the one that I can get for that matter. The HK45CT’s that NSW gets are a little “warmed over” in the trigger, but the ones at the store aren’t. Same for the M&P’s going to the ATF etc etc. Why do you think there’s a civilian division and a .mil/le division at almost all big companies?
This is NSW’s latest solicitation for Mk25’s. And yes, they come from NH. https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=dbc78073ac1f77db0b3ca1cd80c6d163&tab=core&_cview=0
BTW… the Mk23 hasn’t been in use for at least 3-4 years.
As with many other gun makers…with SIGs…older is usually better.
I have three older P-Series SIGs that are 100% reliable shooters. A W. German 1977 made P220, a 1991 made W. German P228 and a 1982 made Swiss P225. All are boringly reliable shooters that I would NEVER sell.
It is a well known fact amongst those of us that shoot SIGs that you should stick to factory SIG mags. Sometimes the Mec Gar aftermarket mags work well (they also make the SIG factory mags…or did for a while) but with SIG P-series guns…stick to the factory mags if you want it to feed right. This is not unusual because Glocks are the same way. I know with 1911s…everyone runs for aftermarket mags but with Glocks and SIGs…factory mags rule.
I have also read in many places that the QC varies wildly on the newer P-series guns with the rails. Since the older SIGs are around in number and half the price of the newer ones…I have always bought the older guns.
Sorry you have had such problems…that is a lot of money to spend on a 9mm that does not work very well. A 450 dollar police trade P226 or P228 will run like the devil all day…every day. Trade that one for an older SIG and you will probably change your opinion of the P226.
Brickboy,
I respect your experience with Sig pistols and your opinion.
I want to chime in and add that I have never once had any issues with Mec Gar magazines in a sig pistol. I do not own as many Sig pistols as you have but the ones I did I put a decent amount of ammo through using mec gar 15 rounders and 18 round magazines.
In terms of the factory mags I do have one concern. They appear to be made by check mate who make aftermarket magazines for the M9 series. From my limited exposure to these I have not seen good results in the M9.
Are your factory magazines marked “Made in Italy” or “Made in USA” ?
I feel that the OP should pay his Friend for the damages he caused to his Friends P226. Bet he never lets him use another firearm.
All the factory SIG mags I have say “Made in Italy” except for the ones in the Swiss made P 225. I am guessing that they are Mec Gars.
If you try Pro Mags or any other aftermarket mags in a P Series SIG…you are begging for trouble.
Check Mate now makes SIG’s mags? Wow…another reason not to buy a newer SIG.
Here’s what a “SME” (active SEAL) on another forum had to say about this subject.
My daily carry is a Sig of various flavors depending on the situation.
I have had 3 brand new 226’s and 2 brand new 239’s over the past 3 years and have not had any issues with any of them. Since round count seems to be the method of giving merit to reliability and longevity, I would estimate probably about 60k rounds. Figure about 50k through the 226’s and 10k through the 239’s.
When making assessments based off of internet information, seriously consider the source. If the source cannot be vetted and verified, then I generally discard it.
Edited to add:
I am currently in the process of buying a custom limited edition Mk25 226. There are some holster compatibility issues with the true 1913 Pic rail, but am also going with custom leather to match the custom gun. I have no doubt the gun I buy will be as ready for action as the Mk25 in my locker at work. Despite the claims on the internet of substandard this, that, and the other, my confidence in the reliability and longevity of Sig pistols remains high.
I recommend always confirming, and considering the “source” for information, especially internet information. Most gun sites have a huge noise to signal ratio, with countless self-appointed experts whose credibility is based off of post counts. If I don’t know at least the perspective of the person sharing the information, then I won’t take it at face value. For example, our own “DocGKR” is a well known personality, with a depth of knowledge not imitated or reproduced easily. He speaks on ballistics, people listen. However, I don’t necessarily trust “Ballistic Bad Boy .600 Magnum” unless his information can be independently verified, and/or his background and credentials warrant accepting his information as legitimate.
Another example is an NFA board I frequent…I trust the words coming from guys who have 100+ piece collections of machineguns and other NFA items. I have a hard time buying any information about the legalities and process for NFA purchases, or “how to” put out by the guy who 4 posts before welcomes himself to the board saying he is getting ready to purchase his first NFA gun.
Always consider the source of info.
As for comparing Sig to Sig…I can do that with my 226R’s right now.
They are the same.
Same reliability.
Same longevity.
Are subject to the same harsh firing schedules.
Get cleaned just as often (never).
Still work.
Over the past 3 years, my personal gun has more collective rounds on it that the 3 NIB issued guns have combined. Personal gun is still going strong, with only a broken recoil spring so far. That was at about 26k round mark. Pretty sure they are supposed to be replaced every 5k or so…
Just sayin…
His statements mirror what every other guy in NSW says, that has talked to me regarding their weapons.
Does SIG put out lemons? Yes they do, especially since gun makers are pumping out record amounts of guns… Do you have a higher chance of getting a lemon SIG than say a lemon Glock or M&P. Nope. Quite the opposite in my experience, actually. Many people just regurgitate what they read on the net, and it compounds from there. Or some cop in some podunk town will see one SIG that’s malfunctioning, and has no idea why or how it’s been taken care of/lubed, and then spreads the word that all new SIGs are crap. Oh the joys of the internets…
I appreciate your work in posting this!!
Mike
It is interesting that he would quote Dr. Roberts:
“These days, skip new Sigs, although the older German made Sig 9 mm’s are superb…” -Gary Roberts
That’s great. Mr. Roberts seems to prefer M&P’s too, which have had a whole slew of well documented problems. I’ve witnessed more than a few myself…
Doc may prefer the MP but he has stated he is focusing on Glock since leaving the 1911. The reason he stated he is sticking to Glock is because he has a slew of high cap mags that he can use while he is on the left coast.
Man, that’s just not how a Sig should run at all… They sure as hell have gone downhill.
Also, your buddy is pretty damn brave holding the camera in front of you like that!! 
I assume you are kidding, but…to assuage safety Nazis…the camera is mounted on a tripod, and remotely controlled by the guy pulling the trigger on the pistol…no risk to any humans, just to paper targets and the bugs crawling around in the dirt kicked up by the bullets when they hit the backdrop.
Why? They have different experiences with Sig pistols. That doesn’t make one more or less of a value, just different. You can have respect for someone’s knowledge and or experience without necessarily agreeing with everything they say or write.
At the OP with the original problems…
I have a 226 myself that I have close to 1K rounds through. Mixed brass and steel, mainly FMJ, but some JHP and BJHP. I’ve only had one FT Feed in that time which I can positively attribute to the ammo being used (cheap bulk pack reloads that were slightly out of spec and I didn’t recognize it until after firing that day). I’ve used factory mags and Mec-Gar aftermarket (18 rounders) which have performed flawlessly with the exception of the aforementioned FTF. Long story short, the round jammed up inside the magazine which prohibited the remainder of the rounds (7 IIRC) from feeding upwards. Not sure how it happened, but I’ve never been able to replicate it with factory loaded ammo.
As for the sights being off, the Sig Sauer website addresses this in their FAQs about 2/3 of the way down under “My Sig pistol isn’t accurate.” Quoted:
All SigSauer production duty/combat pistols are set up to use a “combat” sight picture. This is where the front sight completely covers the bulls eye of the target. Using a six o’clock (“pumpkin on a post”) or center mass (“half’n’half”) sight picture will result in low impact. SigSauer, Inc sights in all non-sporting and non-target pistols for 2.5 inch groupings @ 15 yards. If you are still having trouble please contact Customer Service for further help and instruction. Please have your serial number ready. There are also very helpful free Internet sites that cover pistol group analysis.
http://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/Faq.aspx
Not sure how you are holding your sight picture, but potentially this is what they are referring too? I did notice the majority of your groups were mainly low.
I’m no pistol or Sig expert, but with the FTF in your video, appears the feed ramp could be slightly out of spec or burred which causes the malfs. I’d say have your friend contact Sig and let them know about it. Give your video as an example and see where that goes.
Again, I’m no expert, didn’t even sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night, just outside looking in at the problems and potential causes.
Sigs have had more than their share of problems to the point I won’t buy one anymore unless its an older model.
Pat
Thanks, that was very helpful.
Generally Union stuff would come out better. Its the bosses who hire dirt cheap labor who get the problems in the finished product. Labor is like anything else you get what you pay for. If you hire an idiot for minimum wage to assemble your rifle don’t be surprized if it has problems.
Pat
I don’t know about the greatness of union labor.
Hasn’t the UAW pretty much killed the US big 3 automakers?
I know after 4 years with a US made non-union Toyota pickup…it will be a VERY long time before I buy a UAW made pickup ever again.
The build quality and reliability of union made cars in America ranges from so-so to downright awful in my past experiences.
…just sayin’
-brickboy240