Hey guys, I’m planning to get myself another 45 ACP for my birthday and I’ve been wanting to have another 45 pistol with rail. I wanna attach a weapon light. I’ve narrow my search between a Sig Sauer P220R Elite Dark and a 1911A1 with rail probably Springfield Operator or Kimber Custom TLE II / RL. now, I own both platforms. I have a Sig Sauer P226R Enhanced Elite in 9mm and a Springfield Loaded M1911A1 45 ACP but without rail. so I’m really familiar with both design, I just could decide which one of the pistol platforms to get. some people says that Sigs are not the same as they use to, but in my own experience I’ve never had any problems with my first P226 Navy a I had and my current Enhanced Elite. both are made here in U.S. so I don’t want that to be a -1 for Sig… I just want some opinions between the two pistols and let me know your suggestion…
Let me just say that from an engineering standpoint, making a 9mm pistol is easy. The recoil forces are not the bad, the center of the cartridge sits high in the magazine allow for easy feeding, and the tapered casing makes reliability a snap. So, if the design, materials, and quality control are not up to par then the manufacturer can usually get away with it.
The .45acp on the other hand is not as forgiving. The wide diameter of the cartridge, and straight walled casing means that feeding isn’t as easy to pull off unless the design is good. Recoil forces are stronger, meaning that if the pistol has flaws in its design, materials, and/or quality controls those flaws will turn into function problems.
The P220 is like a 1911 in that its weak point is in cartridge feeding. A new P220 will usually function fine, but as the recoil spring, magazine spring, and extractor get weak with time you start to run into feeding problems. Also, if there are any problems with the quality of manufacturing, you will run into function problems much as you run into crappy 1911s. A well done ramp job will help the P220 as it gives the cartridge a more optimal feeding angle, and it allows the cartridge to go further into the chamber before the rim rides up the breech face and locks the action closed. I’ve used older P220s for years, and I’ve never had any problems with them…but I’ve always done ramp jobs on them and serviced them on schedule. I can’t give you much advice on Ron Cohen(post-2005) P220s, other than you will be getting a “questionable” product.
Based on other buyer’s experiences, and Todd Green’s endurance testing, I wouldn’t buy any modern .45acp pistol other than a HK 45.
I sold my HK USP 45 to get the new HK45 and after putting around 100 rounds through it, I regreted getting it. I shoot my USP 45 way better, the HK45 hurts my trigger finger when shooting it because of that dip on the trigger guard. overall, HK45 is a nice gun but I really don’t see anything special about it. so I sold it and went got a USP 45 and never looked back again… I just much prefer the USP 45 in any way over HK45
You can always give the FNP 45, or the M&P 45 a try. Good reviews on them. The M&P trigger can me modified to turn it into a competition level trigger pretty easily.
Isnt the FNP 45 the one that doesnt feed well with Winchester ammo? I watched a guy with one of the new FN autoloaders struggling with a lot of malfunctions at the range. I did some research, and it sounded like some of them had ammo issues. They also feel very cheap, in my opinion.
As others have mentioned the P220 has some issues and is generally considered not to be quite the gun the 9mm Sigs are. Since you want a rail you are probably stuck with a post Cohen gun so that may or may not be an issue. The P220 is a very accurate pistol and will have the same manual of arms as your other Sigs so that is worth something right there.
The merits and foibles of 1911 has been beaten to death by people light-years beyond me. It is nice to have one in the collection though and if you are only wanting a gun to punch paper with, then definitely worth a look.
I also would recommend you look at the M&P45. I have grown to love mine after replacing the sear and it has certainly become my most shot 45 pistol. Accurate, reliable, and easy to shoot. Oddly, despite its different grips, it doesn’t feel as good in the hand as my P220 or 1911 do, but on the range I shoot it every bit as well.
If the pistol is for collectible purposes then buy the one which you like more.
I have always liked the 1911 but never owned one. It can be made into an excellent defensive arm and even attractive to the eye compared to some current designs. So, from an asthetics design I can see why some like the gun (I really like the Wilson’s).
I myself don’t really get too excited about rails or attaching a light onto my pistol, but I do have two pistols with the rails anyway because they came that way.
The SIG 220 is well proven design and though it does require its share of maintenace would still be my own personal choice. The rails have been around awhile. I would scour Gunbroker and try to locate a used model at or before the current changes at SIG SAUER occurred.
The last railed SIG pistol I bought was one of the Commercial run Navy 226s and I bought the gun around '04-'05. There are likely 220s with a rail from this time as well.
Otherwise, just buy a new one (inspect it first/ before DROS) for any obvious flaws and then send over to Bruce Grey for a thorough going-over.
SkiDevil
P.S. I have seen several TRPs it is a very nice gun. I am just very partial to the 220 and have owned several.
Have you shot the P220? I’m a huge Sig classic series 9mm fan. I own a German P225 and a German P226. If there is a better 9mm combat pistol, I don’t know what it is; however, I’ve shot the P220 several times and never really liked it. You might love it, but I never really took to it. I would say try it first. Of your choices, SA is what I would choose. Before that though, I would try the m&p, the HK, the HK USP and the Glock SF. I’ve tried all of these and like them all better than the Sig P220. Hope that is helpful.
I had a 220 Match, and it was a great gun. In .45, however, I prefer the 1911 platform. To me the ergo’s are better, and there are brands with whom the quality and CS surpass SIG at this time.
Honestly, if I were looking at a .45ACP pistol my only two options would be:
Hammer: HK45
Striker: M&P45
If you absolutely have to have one of the two you proposed in the OP, then it would be tough as I really couldn’t recommend either. Sig quality has suffered as of late, and production 1911s are generally a PIA and prone to ammunition sensitivity and jamming if you plan on running them hard. FWIW I have owned (past-tense) both.
For the 220, I would look for an older German Sig. For the 1911, you really have to start looking into the Springer Pro and other semi-custom territory.
Caveat: I assume you want these for some type of SD use application. If they are just toys, then flip a coin and enjoy
This may or may not be the answer you want to hear, but it is the truth based on my experience and the experience of many others whose opinions I highly respect.
Don’t know that that advice is valid my friend. I think thousands of Glock 21/30 owners would echo my theory that they are some of the most reliable/accurate .45s out there. And since mine’s not made of wood, I assume it’s modern.
There is the famous torture test done on a G21 and an HK45 posted on this and the GT forums. Glock won in that one. Looked like a pretty damned reliable pistol. In fact, that test convinced me to go out and buy my G21. To each his own.
Indeed, to each his own. If you like the .45acp Glocks…enjoy. In addition to Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, and Gary Roberts are not big fans of the .45acp Glocks. Particularly with light attachements, and suppressors.
Looks like the Sig P220 is out of the list now… ever since I started getting in to firearms world, I never ever really consider looking in to Smith & Wesson M&P handguns until like 3 weeks ago. I thought they were ugly and it just didn’t appeal me at all. But when I actually held it the last time I went to our local gun store, I actually felt the love It did feel better than any of my previous Glock handguns. I really appreciate the M&Ps one main reason is that the thickness are all the same. it didnt matter what caliber it is. I have been eyeballing the M&P 45 and M&P45c. since I dont own any compact size pistol (all full size) I’ve been thinking about getting the M&P45c. It’s compact but not so compact which I really like. but I have been hearing mix reviews about M&Ps some says it’s got some frame cracking problem but other says it is a good reliable pistol. I personally have zero experience on M&P pistols. If anyone here got some experience and input about M&P pistols epecially on 45s that you would like to share to me, I would really appreciate it
Years ago I had a SIG P-220, I found it 100% reliable and accurate. I have also found Springfield’s CS to be second to none, they do stand behind their stuff.
If you are looking for a service pistol you might want to checkout the M&P, HK45.
I despise the P220 and would take a quality built 1911 over a P220 any day of the week. This day and age I’d go with an M&P45 w/Apex parts or HK45c. My comments are here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
It did feel better than any of my previous Glock handguns. I really appreciate the M&Ps one main reason is that the thickness are all the same. it didnt matter what caliber it is. I have been eyeballing the M&P 45 and M&P45c. since I dont own any compact size pistol (all full size) I’ve been thinking about getting the M&P45c. It’s compact but not so compact which I really like. but I have been hearing mix reviews about M&Ps some says it’s got some frame cracking problem but other says it is a good reliable pistol. I personally have zero experience on M&P pistols. If anyone here got some experience and input about M&P pistols epecially on 45s that you would like to share to me, I would really appreciate it