The other MCX Thread was getting long and covered all the generations of the MCX. How are the guys that have the Virtus/Rattlers liking those newer generations of the SIG? I’ve been Looking at the Virtus Pistol in 300BLk to convert to SBR later.
The MCX rattler .300 blackout (AK wanna-be) has a 5.5" inch barrel, with maybe 4" of actual bore for an already slow moving round. I personally wouldn’t see the advantages of that particular round given it’s neutered ballistics when shooting from such a short barrel length. I say this owning Krinkov AK’s that have 8.5" barrels but all mine are in 5.56 and 5.45. The 5.56 Krinkov falls to 2380 FPS with 55gr yielding 691 ft/lbs energy. While the 5.45x39 Krinkov falls to 2411FPS with 53gr bullets yielding 684 ft/lbs of energy. However using heavier bullets for the 5.56 or shooting non velocity dependent rounds like 7n6- closes that gap in performance for both Krinkov rifles versus a full sized 16" rifle.
For your particular application, calculating a 38% drop in muzzle velocity (using 7.62x39 overlapped muzzle velocity drops per inch) going to that barrel length over a 16"- would reduce velocity of a 125gr round from 2200 FPS to 1364 FPS out of a 5.5" barrel. I believe however the actual FPS would be much lower for that particular round but am limited to just charts using known barrel lengths and avg reductions. Anyway, that barrel given the parameters of what I have available to look at would yield muzzle energy of only 495 ft/lbs, however it’s likely far less. Overall, it’s ballistically an oversized handgun with a rifle sized magazine and profile.
To put it simply, a 45 acp 1911 running 230gr +P’s yields roughly 510 ft/lbs of energy- which is more energy than what that .300 Blackout MCX Rattler yields.
7n6
The SIG MCX MPX line is WAAAY over priced IMHO. They also do not tend to be accurate.
C4
I’m not a blackout fan boy or anything, but it should be 1700 or so from that barrel with 110gr supers, yielding around 700 in muzzle energy ballpark.
Blackout, has a wide sweep for it’s capacity and doesn’t lose as much velocity in short barrels as other rounds do.
I’ve shot a rattler at a recent local event. It was crazy fun with subs.
I’ll stick with my ARs in 5.56 for now though.
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Huh? This was a rattler shot at 300 yards.
I have not heard of any accuracy complaints from the Virtus or Rattler lines with their heavier barrels.
Really digging mine.
The Duo-Match trigger is good, love the modularity, weapon is extremely ergomonic and almost fully ambidextrous. Adjustable gas, built in sling mount points, swappable barrels.
The only thing left to be seen is reliability and accuracy. Only got a couple hundred rounds downrange, so will have to see how it performs over extended use.
I think it is hit and miss. Looks like you got a good one!
C4
I think the Rattler was more a mp5 SD replacement than an AK replacement… The Rattler has a 5.5 inch and the Virtus has a 9 inch, and I think there is a 6.75 inch barrel as well. I have not put my hands on any of the models except for the old 1st gen MCX and I have been waiting till the bugs have been worked out before I dug into my research into them more.
I handled what I think was the Virtus (longer one) and I really, really liked it. I just can’t trust Sig right now 100% yet. Hence why I haven’t pulled the trigger on a damn 365.
For what I was looking to do with a 300blk pistol or SBR the virtus had it all right out of the box, I am just leery about them. YMMV.
The latest MCX Virtus version’s with the heavier barrels along with the faster barrel twist rates for the 9" inch and under .300 Blackout barrels seem to have taken care of any accuracy issues with the earlier MCX model barrels opening up some (don’t they all) when they get hot. My sample of one shoots fine hot or cold. Are they over priced? Yeah, probably by about $150., IMHO. But in comparison, to some people, SCAR’s, H&K’s, KAC’s, Wilson Combat pistols, are also somewhat overpriced, although they do have a longer proven track record. I will be adding a direct mount dedicated Omega 300 can to mine along with the new SB Tactical SBA3 FDE brace to my pistol variant when they come out, because the length of pull is currently a little long. Also, I might replace the TLR1 HL light with the smaller and lighter TLR-7. Personally, with some of the current and future pistol braces coming out I see no need to SBR mine, and would prefer to stay more off the radar of those trying to retrict my second admendment rights in the future. I agree with the point WickedWillis makes above with Sig and longterm support, they always seem to have a lot of projects going on and sometimes they drop them and move on to the next one before they totally refine and finish them. I guess I will see on that, although with the current and future political gun climate, I am pretty confident I could make a nice profit on mine should I decide to dump it sometime in the future. Also FYI , Magpul and Lancer are making tweeked dedicated mags for the .300 blackout and they are available now. The link below has some more info on the MCX .
https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/review-sig-sauer-mcx/
Great news is in 1-3 years SIG will have discontinued them, like they do with all their current products save a handful.
At least FN, HK, KAC, and the others make a product and keep it around for awhile. Then again they are all typically for .mil contracts, as opposed to whatever model SIG has.
YMMV.
That is a possibility but other makers have also done that. I know H&K has done it more than a few times in their product line in the past. Hell, the way this country is going they could all be banned along with sky high ammo prices in 1-3 years and we won’t have to worry about any of it. LOL
I just was having a conversation with a gentleman that came from the unit that asked Sig to develop it. So I have been thinking about the whole concept of a 5.5" rifle barrel.
I figure the FPS depending on bullet weight is 1700 to 1900.
Then I look at the Underwood 9mm 65 grain xtreme defender which they claim goes 1700FPS out of what I assume is a handgun length barrel and I wonder what this round would do out of my 7,75 " barrel in my mini Uzi. The Uzi would give a lot less blast and flash than a rifle round out of a 5,5" gun. Plus in the same space as what 1 rifle mag takes to carry you could carry 2 Uzi mags.
So as “cool” as it is, I wonder if for serious work it is up to the task. Or could we achieve better results by stuffing some more exotic ammo in out MP5 or closed bolt mini Uzi?
That one wasn’t mine. I haven’t cared enough to bench mine yet considering the role I have it in maxes out at the end of my hallway. Mine has been utterly reliable even in neg 20 degree weather. I have shot a few different virtus guns in 5.56 and 300blk and they all shot accurately. Sig seems to be putting in more than their normal level of effort into the MCX and I think it is becoming one of the better rifles on the market, which is a big statement coming from me given my rather complicated opinion of the company. Some rather serious organizations have taken notice of the MCX and Sig is generating a lot of momentum. Even a few of the PD’s around me bought a bunch of Virtus rifles with matching cans for all their Squad cars. I think Sig would be wise to bundle these with their P320’s for PD’s to get them out there in the LE community. It is on them to not **** it up. They have all the ingredients, they just need to resist sticking their dick in the pie when it comes out of the oven.
I am curious about the overpriced comment though. It is a radical departure from the ar15, to the point were it is almost not fair to compare it. It has a CHF barrel, E3 type bolt(goes a step further with the tapered lugs), Folding Stock that does not impede function, Piston, Adjustable gas block, completely modular, replaceable steel inserts and all metal upper and lower. I always joked that this rifle was design by a committee that didn’t say no to any features. The upper is made from 6061 aluminum(Rattler is 7075), I will give you that, but it was designed to be so from the get go so it should be fine(No one complains about the Scar using 6000 series Aluminum). Yet it is hundreds less than the Scar which is half plastic. There are plenty of Ar15 rifles that are sitting on shelves for more money that don’t have a fraction of the features or R&D behind them. There is nothing else on the market like it, and the Army went sole source on the PDW after about a year with no one submitting anything close to what they wanted other than Sig.
Tier one units have been using the MCX’s in 300blk as the MP5 SD replacement for years now.
C4
Yeah, the gen one MCX and MPX’s didn’t run well suppressed, weren’t accurate and had recalls. Knowing SIG as I do, they do a fantastic job of creating product (that wasn’t fully tested) and then releasing it. Then, doing a recall and then creating a GEN 2 version. From a dealer standpoint, I have watched them raise prices just about every year and also remove things like sights. They are always finding ways to cheapen their products. Where as companies like BCM and B&T are putting more money into theirs…
C4
Hah, I said the same thing about the new P365…I want one, but waiting for the inevitable gen 2.
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Yep. Prime example. Having held that gun (with the short mag), it will end up eating shooters hands up. Pass. Stick with the Glock 43 or GEN 2 Shield. Tried and true…
C4
I would much rather have Q Honey Badger for rattler money. Barrel is a little longer (gun is only .7 inches longer in the compressed position) but in talking with Kevin last year at Shot he made a solid case the 7" is the sweet spot for 300 black.
Review is up on americanrifleman.org:
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/3/29/tested-sig-sauer-mcx-virtus-patrol-rifle/
Accuracy results taken using the Romeo4T unmagnified optic. 2MOA reticle.
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