I’d be unhappy with any DAK. A prominent USPSA shooter who was teaching a class to a department armed with 229 DAK’s said the gun was built for liability and there is only so well/fast you can shoot one. A Glock will allow you to reach your potential whereas a DAK will not.
With all due respect to the USPSA shooter, the world of paper targets is a bit different than the world where every bullet has a lawyer attached to it. I shoot an H&K P30 with the LEM system (designed by the same individual who designed the DAK system for Sig, IIRC) and I can assure you that the weapon itself is absolutely no impediment to speed. I believe the fastest splits I’ve recorded on my P30 (while hitting a reasonable target) are .17…which is just as fast as what I could get on my M&P with a customized trigger. (Shorter reset, lighter weight)
Light triggers with a short travel are enormously forgiving when it comes to poor trigger control and they do allow you to simply slap the unholy hell out of the trigger and still get acceptable hits. That kind of trigger is not forgiving when it comes to handling the weapon safely under stress, reholstering the weapon into a concealed carry holster without discharging it, etc.
The Sig DAK’s trigger weight is supposed to be around 6.5 pounds…up until recently Glocks came standard with 5.5 pound triggers. Hardly a world changing difference in pull weight, I think…
“overall though i’m pretty disappointed that glock has taken one of the most bombproof, simple, reliable designs and turned it into something even iffier than a modern sig.”
Actually, I don’t believe Glock has sunk consistently as low as Sig…
JW, how does one find out which guns have the “changed” extractor? I have a Gen3 Glock17 that runs like a top. It’s probably seen 3-4k rounds (many of them steel cased) and I recently had a stovepipe during a class. The AI (Mike from EAG Tactical) told me to consider replacing my extractor because it looked like the gun’s extraction was weak. I was running the gun with a KKM barrel, which has never been a problem, but that is the one variable in the gun other than the stock Glock.
I also have a Gen3 Glock 19 that I purchased in 2010. That gun has had some issues. It doesn’t live up to Glock reliability and I frequently get stovepipes with it. It has more problems with steel case ammo than brass, but problems exist nonetheless. All of my steel stuff is done and I don’t plan on buying more.
If you look at the extractor, the “new” style has a little dip in the middle of the top edge. Not the best pic, but its all I could find (borrowed from another site). Front one is the “old” style and back one is the “new” style.
Thanks for that reply with the pic.
I ended up detail stripping my Glock 17 a few hours ago (for the first time since I purchased it in 2008) and cleared a bunch of carbon and other crud from the firing pin channel and extractor. It should be back to its old self.
The Glock 19, we’ll have to see…
that’s true… as far as i can tell it’s mostly just an issue of recoil spring weight. Kind of a simple fix, which really makes it even more annoying that they couldn’t just get it right out of the factory.
As far as overall quality though i think glocks are pretty top notch. any Gen 3 9mm i’d happily take out of the box and carry.
The 4th gen issues are more than just springs. Even some recent 3rd gen 9 mm’s have exhibited issues, probably as a result of the inclusion of the newer “4th gen” parts. Until recently, I fully trusted 9 mm Glocks to reliably run right out of the box…sadly due to Glock’s inexplicably stupid design changes, that time has passed…
Doc, what are they including in the newer 3rd gens besides the extractor with the “dip”?
I just checked my Glock19 and it has the non-updated LCI extractor. One other thing I recall was that most (almost all) of the stoppages occurred with a WML (TLR1).
The Glock 17 runs with or without the WML.
Your not serious I hope.
Working for the same P.D. as you are brother and I may be wrong but I was told that we are grandfathered in with our Sigs if we make the switch to a striker fired weapon, but I’m going to check General Orders now to make sure. Was planning on making the switch to a S&W myself this week.
And as too the Glock issue. I’ve known a few guys at work who have had some minor problems with their Gen 4 Glocks and that would be enough for me to step down to a gen 3 if I were interested in Glocks that is.
Do you happen to know what models of Gen 4 Glocks they were?
Both occasions they were Glock 17 with failures to eject. I did get the information second hand though so take it with a grain of salt.
Thanks. I was just wondering if it was a 9mm or 40SW, since most of the problems I have heard about are from the 9mms. Stay safe out there, especially with the warmer weather coming.
I stand corrected, you are right. Your prescribed weapon would be the Glock and if you wish to carry the Sig as your prescribed alternate you may do so.
My knee jerk reaction is dump the Sig because of the poor quality of Sig parts, QC, and customer service these days. All the while keeping their prices the same even though they cheaped out on their end.
But several things give me pause. One is that you need to be able to depend on your pistol and your skill with that pistol more than some of us. You may have an earlier P229/DAK before all the Sig cost cutting and you may find it works better for you than any Glock.
As others have mentioned the Gen 4 Glocks are not without issue. I have several with fairly high round counts (4 to 5,000) without any real problems. I’ve been pretty vociferous about defending the Gen 4’s because of this. But just last week I bought a Gen 3 17 because i don’t want to even have to think about spring issues. So i would really cannot recommend the Gen 4 9mm’s for critical work.
DocGKR, I will be picking up two 3rd Gen G19’s on Monday. Your observation about 4th gen parts in some later 3rd Gen guns concerns me. I have a made a couple of trips to Glock for various services since I’m pretty close.
If the pistols turn out to be problematical due to having 4th gen parts,if in fact they do,will Glock replace them with gen 3 parts.I've already bought them.Is there a serial number range for the 3rd gens with 4th gen parts? Thanks.