Was at our range this week and a member was trying out his AR that he just got back from having Side Cocker installed.
He was very happy with it and really liked the fact that he could use the side cocker when prone a lot better than the handle as he did not have to move his head to work the bolt.
I also tried it out and must say that working the side cocker was a lot better when prone.
Would like to hear what you all say. Good or Bad or ??
I love the idea of a side charging AR…however so few models are in actual practice that I am reserving my judgment til a few more side charging models appear and some more detailed feedback comes in.
I am a lefty, so its def. appealing to me…however, no matter how nice ergo’s sound on a firearm…you never really know how well they work until you actually spend time on that weapon personally.
Its just like the new BAD-A.S.S. ambi selectors…you really have to play with them yourselves to see how things like that go…being that controls…ergo’s are a highly unique preference and everyone seems to like a little something diff.
two big negatives to side chargers- strong-side charging (on all the side-chargers i’ve seen, though i think there might be a couple somewhere in the universe that actually charge on the left side) and an open action to let in all the cruduments.
American Spirit Arms
http://www.americanspiritarms.com/products/ASA_AR_15_M4_Side_Charger_Upper_Receiver-38-4.html
But yes, it leaves the action far more open.
So, rather then have an easy to break down weapon that has easy access to spare parts, your thinking of going with a novelty item?
I’ve never seen one of these, and I’m sure it’s fun to shoot but my thoughts the second I read your post were:
- How much of a pain in the ass is it to get the BCG out of the upper for cleaning.
- How much of a pain in the ass is it to get it back into the upper for shooting.
- What are the chances of me finding someone that has replacement parts in the field if the gun goes ass up? 1 in 1,000,000?
No idea.
- How much of a pain in the ass is it to get it back into the upper for shooting.
Once again, no idea. Might be easy, might be hard.
- What are the chances of me finding someone that has replacement parts in the field if the gun goes ass up? 1 in 1,000,000?
If you don’t have it to begin with, don’t expect to have it when the balloon goes up.
I saw them at SHOT. IIRC when I asked about whether or not they HP-MPI test their barrels and bolts I got a blank stare. They also seemed to think that YHM rails were the bet in the industry.
Needless to say I was polite and rolled out.
I like the LWRC side handle on their REPR. Seemed very solid and didn’t open the action to any crap more than it already was through the dust cover.
But it’s only on the .308’s and at $3k they’ve lost thier F’n minds.
Overall I think it’s a non issue though. It is 4" further forward on the receiver, non standard, and will most likely end up giving you trouble at the worst possible moment. I can only imagine it jamming the action if it was dropped onto concrete, stepped on, or being landed on while going prone.
:D…The ole’ gunstore clerk blank stare following a technical question from a patron…I am sure it was followed by the infamous, “if i have not heard of it, I cannot imagine it existing” face.
On the YHM rails…they are terrible from my exp. and prob. tied with the UTG aluminum rails for the absolute worst in the biz. Few yrs. back I bought a spectre length FF rail for a Nordic 10/22 AR22 chassis and although it worked for that lil pee shooter setup, I have never personally seen a rail that was more outta spec and had one overall feel as heavy and FAT as that particular one back then.
I was looking at the ASA and the mega side chargers my only concern is I am a lefty and there doesn’t appear to be a brass deflector on either upper.I wonder if this is a problem with brass in your face.
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The ASA uses a standard BCG with one small area milled for the cocking handle to contact. Shotgun it and the BCG slides out like usual.
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Just as easy.
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Since when does a BCG break, or better yet, just how tough is the standard charging handle? Putting your boot on one and trying to pogo a stuck round that won’t mortar out is a great way to tear them up. Murphy will get you any way he can.
As for it being a novelty item, not so much. Almost all other military rifles do have side charger handles, it’s the M16 with the one in the middle that forces you to break cheek weld cocking it if necessary. Having a weak hand side charger means keeping the finger on the trigger, and it’s been suggested that it can make the AR even more efficient than the center handle.
If the side charger was less efficient, it make no sense to market charging handles with extended latches to make left hand charging easier. This just puts the handle and latch further forward.
As for creating another hole in the receiver, it’s still more enclosed than any bolt action or the M14, and being non reciprocating, won’t cause stoppages like the fixed op rod designs. To me, it’s an ergonomic improvement, especially for a hunting and range rifle. There seem to be plenty of other improvements applauded in that regard, like triggers, or even different calibers. If it’s not required to be Service Rifle, the user can do what they want.
Gotta ask, if SHTF is really a priority, do you have a pallet of ammo, or a horse?
I really do like the feel of the side charging handle, but rather than a questionable modification, I think I would just buy the ACR. Of course that assumes that one has a pretty thick bankroll…
Questionable modification is an interesting point: If everything else on an AR is good to go, compared to the unproven and untested ACR -which do you choose?
I suspect some engineer has a load analysis of literal foot - pounds of force necessary to detach a side charger while pogoing the bolt. I don’t expect to ever hear a “Mean Charges Between Failures” number for any of them.
We do know AR handles can be broken because their length works against them. We don’t know if a side charger can be pulled out of the side channel, or what amount of pressure the lever pin can take. If the driving lug can shear off in the BCG recess, or shear IT off, I suspect it would take a lot more than a human could apply. I believe aluminum scope rails take a lot more abuse - no one mentions that as a problem. And the pistol grip - held on by one small screw? Look an AR over, there are lots of small bits holding it together.
From what I see the ASA side charger is a simple design, just like others that have been around 50 years. I find the use of 30 round curved mags far more questionable, as they have to accommodate a mag well designed for a short straight mag. Magazines and feed lips are much more of a problem in the AR. It’s not wrong to place them ahead of the charging handle in priority - but Pmags seem to solve it. 20 years ago, plastic mags were questionable, now, the solution.
Tirod’s post above is right on (IMO) responding to your three bullet points. I’ve got an ASA side charger and that configuration combined with an EBR is spot-on for ergonomics for me. Their CS is great as well if anyone’s looking at these. For those interested, below’s a pic of the milled area of the Carrier.
See the 3rd or 4th post in this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=274&t=176674
The ASA version does have a brass deflector.
Thanks for the different perspective, tirod. I was making it more complicated in my mind- like putting a straight axle in a GMC instead of just buying a Dodge. But in this case it really is a much more simple and tested modification.
Thanks for the reply.For the life of me I can’t find a pic of the ASA’s ejection side of the receiver to confirm that. I found a pic of the 308 and it doesn’t appear to have a brass deflector. Anyone have a pic of the 556 receiver.
Yeah, there aren’t any. I posted some on ASA’s forum space on ARF so folks could see, check out this link from above: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=274&t=176674
Thanks for the pics.
I certainly like the side charger on my XCR, and the REPR.