SHTF Fighting Gun(s): Getting Thoughts on Paper - Feedback Welcome

Preparation, Preparedness & Prevention Disaster Preparation & Planning
1

Let me start by defining myself and my purpose. I am proud to be a citizen of the United States of America, as I’m sure you are too. I believe that Freedom is the greatest gift we have and also the most costly. Thank you to those who are reading this that have and are contributing to it as I write! The freedom of this country was not established by a standing military as there really was none. It was established by individuals who united behind the common cause of freedom. That spirit must remain alive, or this nation will collapse from within. That being said, the individual’s ability to maintain personal and collaborative freedom relies heavily upon arms. My thoughts in this realm are not regarding defensive firearms deployed in the home against an intruder. The options there are well-established and I have made my choices as I feel are appropriate.
Instead, I wish to explore what weapon(s) are most practical for defending the freedom of myself, my family, my community, my state, and my nation from any and all threats regardless of their source. I realize that this is subjective to a certain extend based upon geographic conditions. Thus, I will define mine: Southeastern United States, 40 miles Northeast of Atlanta, GA. Suburban/Rural with access to Smoky Mountains 1.5 hrs away.
Primary: Pistol - as a licensed concealed weapon carrier, this is what I am most likely to have either on my person or within close reach. This is what the majority of my training thus far has centered around. My choice is a Glock 19, YMMV.
Secondary: This is where I begin to struggle. Semi-auto is appealing due to larger/more rapid volume of fire and I have some minor training with the AR-15 platform. I also have gear and mags to support the AR-15 platform. The exact iteration of this platform is, however, up for debate. In my area, Intermediate range is most likely (100-300 yds) However, the AR-15 also falls into my HD scenario, so it needs CQB capabilities as well. I find a magnified optic to be a plus (not a necessity) beyond 100 yds. My thoughts here are either a 1-4 variable, or a 2.5-8 in conjunction with a Micro Dot. Weight is a consideration, so that gives the edge to the 1-4, but the 2.5-8 earns the edge in precision. (In my experience, things never go as planned. For instance, if you plan on the deer walking out at 200 yds and you’re dialed up to 9X, he walks out at 10 yds and vice versa) This also is a tic in favor of the dual optic setup.
Third: Remington 700 20" HB .308. I have the utmost confidence in this platform and have intermediate training with it. I know with all confidence that I can make hits at 700 (probably further, but that’s as far of a range as I’ve been to thus far). Due to the bolt action and mag capacity, this does not serve well as a primary fighting arm, but would do well in a role of 400yds+ as needed, and is also a large enough caliber to take large game.
Wildcard: As an alternate to the AR in the secondary role is an AR-based .308, FAL, M14. This is heavier that a 5.56 AR, ammo is heavier to carry, but more devistating likely requiring less to fire (am I thinking correctly here?) This rifle could potentially serve in the role of the bolt gun and the AR (do you think?) I would run the 3.5-10 off my bolt gun in conjunction with a micro Dot and essentially have a do-everything gun. The problem with that is, it’s not as good as an AR in CQB, and not as good as a bolt gun at long range.
Deployment: CC rig for pistol, Carbine and Chest Rig take things to the next level if need be. If bugging out to the mtns is required, the bolt gun goes in a McMillan or similar pack with survival items.

Likely scenarios IMHO: Religious uprising, Natural disaster, Socio-demographic uprising

Less-likely scenarios IMHO: Foreign invasion

I’m always reminded/haunted by the quote from Admiral Yamamoto from WWII where he says “You could never invade America, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.” I’m afraid this is not the case anymore with our PC state of affairs, but I at least want to make sure there are still some rifles behind grass if/when needed. IMHO it is the individual’s responsibility to provide for his own security and the security of his family.

These are my thoughts. There may be flaws. I invite you to discuss, critique, offer advice.

Thank you!

2

rifle, first, last, and always

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  1. There already is a foreign invasion from Mex, and there are 10 mil or more of them here now and they keep coming.

  2. IMO, SHTF may occur on a local level from a natural disaster. On a national level I think it would occur due to (a) worldwide financial collapse, (b) EMP bomb over U.S., (c) mass resistance to government oppression (i.e., a Prez declares martial law…). I don’t buy the Socio-demo uprising. There ain’t no way the Black Panthers or La Raza are driving to Iowa to try to shoot the farmers.

Regarding your guns, I have no criticism, but I would encourage you to think in terms of a team (you, family members, neighbbors, etc.) because (a) you can’t lug all that crap yourself, and (b) there will be a better chance of survival in a team.

Forgot to add: Think about body armor.

4

Colt 6933 and a G17 are the problem solvers. One person can’t realistically carry more than this(okay, a 6920 instead of the 6933 if so desired) and nothing more is really needed. If one wants to carry a shotgun and a precision rifle, they need more hands. Or a mode of transportation.

5

If you are going to discuss "SHTF Fighting Guns", then in my mind you are talking about a carbine and a pistol per person.

A Glock 17/19 or an M&P in your holster and an AR of your choice (Colt 6920 for me).

Any more and you need a golf cart to transport.

6

I don’t own a 9mm so for me it is my LMT or BCM SBR. The BCM would probably get the nod with the inch longer bbl. I would also have my G22.

7

IMO for a situation like any of the myriad of SHTF scenarios, a sidearm is nothing more than a backup or a tool to help you get to your rifle. Once your rifle is in hand, it should always be the primary.

8

Well:
If we go old school we can use the late Mel Tappen’s(sp?) book written in the 1970’s as a guide. Are we foraging to fill the pot? If so a 22 lr and or a 22 magnum is a great choice. Never forget the universal 12 ga., which has been the defender of hearth and home for centuries, while still capable of harvesting game. What about an 870 with an extra barrel for game?

Pistol, yes and while were are at it put me down for two to carry. The Glock line makes sense. Full size and a sub compact in the same caliber, common ammo, parts and mags. Or an M &P although they are not as developed and will need time to mature.

Rifle, well yes. Ar’s / AK’s make sense if one envisions a lot of fighting. AR wins for mags, parts and it is the good guys gun.
For me a 6.8 with a variable optic and a sure fire light might be the best set up except for ammo and mag. replenishment. When in Rome one would be well advised to use the common Gladius.

Or we could doff our hat to the later Col. Copper. His writings suggest a short medium bore bolt or lever action, a scout type. Ammo availability was always considered key. So a short well equipped 7.62x51 bolt gun, or a lightly modified 30/30 lever action might fit the bill. Either is capable of defending the home and gathering game. The above are non threatening, and ammo is every where.

So what say, you? Will you be surviving, in combat or stacking up zombies…

Regards
Matt

9

Just had this discussion with a friend at work. We both agree on Glock for a pistol roll. But for a rifle roll is where we hit the wall.

We agreed on an AR platform. He just purchased a POF recon in
.223/.556. He thinks cuz his cost $2000 bucks its going to run no matter what.

I on the other have a mutt of a gun. Middy BCM upper and a Mega lower with RRA lpks for around $1000 bucks and its the way I wanted.

If the SHTF, I want a rifle that does have a lot of moving parts. I’m not bashing POF or Gas Piston systems. But if I’m in this situation I want the simplicity of the direct impingement and not a piston system. Not to mention the POF comes with a Timney trigger group(not bad, but not what I want in a fighting rifle).

Bradb55

10

Q: midlength gas system for less wear and tear, or, carbine system in case you have to find and replace the gas tube?

I tend to think a carbine gas system is best as you won’t be burning through large amounts of ammo, thus making the wear and tear issue moot, but some unforeseen damage to the gas tube may make replacing a mid-length gas tube difficult…

Anyway, I vote a gen3 G19 (will be able to use both G17 and G19 mags, and it will be lighter and easier to conceal), and a Colt 6920. If you have the ability to have a second rifle, stored in your vehicle or house etc., I’d just have another one of the same (6920 in this case)…keep it simple and light, extra weight ought to go to more supplies and ammo, not other guns IMHO, as those extraneous guns will just have to be left behind, or cached, if you need to bug out, not to mention complicating your ammo and parts logistics. Luxury additions would maybe be to add a .22LR pistol for small game, and maybe a 12 gauge shotgun for hunting birds to deer.

11

I agree. The pistol is just easier to carry and you could use it to fight to your long gun. If you were truly in a combat situation you would not want your rifle more than arms length away.

12

Son of Vlad Tepes

I’m with on the mid gas vs. carbine gas. There would be more parts available for carbine in my area due to the fact the LEOs carry them for duty rifles. Sad fact is most of them have DPMS and Bushmasters sitting in their crusiers.

I’m not sure what the odds of having to replace the gas tube are, but sure as hell it would happen to me. I might order some now. lol

13

I agree that in a combat situation the rifle is the way to go.

But I also would argue for the importance of a handgun for a SHTF incident, in addition to a rifle/carbine.

During many types of SHTF incidents within CONUS, a handgun that can be carried at all times and also concealed can be vital. Being armed while being able to attend to non-combat related tasks and the ability to maintain a “low profile” has it’s advantages. Especially during incidents such as natural disasters. Situations in which the “fighting” hasn’t started yet, but local Law Enforcement is overwhelmed handling the incident. This is where the handgun plays more of a primary role than the secondary role it would play during a combat type environment.

I am not arguing that the handgun replace the rifle/carbine, but that one should have both at their disposal during such an incident.

14

…others would bring up the AK-particularly the Arsenal, Inc. ones made in Nevada. They shoot tighter groups than regular Kalashnikovs yet keep all the attributes. Like your Glock, its more likely to continue functioning in the worst conditions imagineable. Ammo for it is plentiful and cheap-even here in the States. Talk about a SHTF or zombie gun, this is it!

15

If you are worried about gas tube failure as a reason to go with carbine gas system, you are looking way too hard for a flaw. If you would have to cannabilize another rifle for its gas tube, why not just swap uppers??? If you are going to swap uppers, why not run the better one (middy) in the beginning???

I own both stoner and kalashnikov rifles. I would rather have my AR. Just a personal preference. Ergonomics second to none. I would never be without a rifle in a SHTF world.

16

There is always the battle field pick up. Use what ever you can to keep in the fight.

17

My current standings are:
Primary: Noveske 16" middy AR with Aimpoint
Secondary: Springfield 1911 Mil-spec with Wilson mags
Third: Sar-8 in 308 (HK91 contract rifle made in Greece)
Wildcard: 10/22 with bull barrel & 3-9 scope

This covers everything in my book from taking small game for food to taking large “varmints” that present a threat.

18

damn right, a pistol ain’t good for nothing but fighting your way to a rifle

.

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Primary: Right now it would be my 16 Daniel Defense middy with an ACOG.

Secondary: I would have to say my G19. I have a M&P Pro in 9mm that is new. Once I have enough rounds through it to where I am comfortable with the gun it might take the G19s place.

Third: I have a M1A but it is in a JAE stock with a 6.5-20 Mark 4 scope so I am not going to carry that thing anywhere, lol. I would pick one of my .22 rifles for this.

Wildcard: I really don’t have one for this. If I was staying near the house and not on the go I would pick one of my bows. It’s a nice and silent way to harvest game.

20

To clarify my position here: If stuff is already bad (i.e. a war) the obviously the rifle takes the primary role, but anything short of that, the pistol is concealable, and maintaining a low profile is very important. Thus, for everyday life, and until war ensues, the pistol is the primary.