Hey everyone,
Would shouldering a buffertube that was attached to the gun (cmmg mk9 pistol) constitute an SBR, or is it completely legal. I asked the owner of my local gun range and he said he would “turn the other check” if I did. Still I am just curious.
Thanks
I believe the ATF sent out a memo stating that if you shouldered a pistol in any way that that changes it to a SBR. Or some bull like that.
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If you want an SBR get an SBR. There are letters from ATF on both sides of the debate. There are other devices out there like the Shock Wave and Sig Brace.
I believe the ATF memo mentioned above was in regard to the Sigtac arm brace, first they were like nah, putting it up to your shoulder doesn’t change the design nor the classification of the firearm, then there were like “sup brah”, looks like a paperless SBR you got there?
Not every state allows an SBR.
Thank you. I have grown tired of someone always chiming in that unhelpful and amazingly inappropriate advice. I associate that “SBR or nothing” line of reasoning with “why do you need scary guns” relativism. It would be appreciated if the opinionated, pro-SBR fellows would tolerate that a tax stamp is not the universal option.
To the OP’s question, it is Big Boy rules on said shouldering conduct. I would just be careful on any issue where the government has a strong taxation issue. The government viewpoint: Civil rights, maybe interested…Electoral politics, probably interested… Taxation, sure as hell interested.
It’s yet to be determined. Which means that they can make an example out of you anytime they feel like it, and if they feel they can get away with it then you know they’re gonna do it.
Originally, the ATF said that shouldering a pistol buffer was okay because how a gun was used didn’t change its classification. Then they issued an “opinion letter” saying that shouldering a Sig brace, and even a bare pistol buffer tube, would instantly transform that pistol into an unregistered SBR, and it would thenceforth be an SBR for the rest of eternity. This is an extremely bold move on their part, and it sets a very dangerous precedent. If this is allowed to stand, then the ATF could easily ban everyone from using two hands to fire a pistol, as a pistol is defined as being designed to be fired with one hand. Then they could force everyone to register their pistols as AOWs if they wanted to use two hands, which would essentially create a de facto national pistol registry.
Agreed 100%. I see nothing wrong with pistol ARs with arm braces. Well, there shouldn’t even be any restrictions and legal differentiation b/w shoulder stocks and arm braces, but for what they are they’re fine.
I say get a buffer tube, and should it just happen to hit your shoulder due to the intense recoil of .223, then so be it. Big Boy rules .
Yes.
Completely not legal.
Which check? Bail or fines?
Agree with it or not, it’s the (current) law. If range owner doesn’t mind you shouldering your pistol just go to it. It’s on you from there.
Google “United States vs Olofson” to learn how blurring laws can cost you 30 months of your life. Also note how a call from a patron (not range owner) started the whole chain of events.
Right, but you can have an AR pistol with a Shock Wave. Don’t use a buffer tube as a stock. People doing stupid things is why we have ATF Letters about shockwaves and Sig Braces.
Did you read my post? This is the NFA section. It is a place to talk about NFA items. If you want an SBR get one. If you don’t want one or can’t have one there are other options. A sig Brace or a Shockwave. I know there are others too. Shouldering a buffer tube is trying to have an SBR either where you can’t or when you don’t want one. You are asking for trouble.
At first I thought someone at the ATF must have been asleep at the wheel when they approved the Sig brace. But now I think they were scheming this whole thing from the beginning. Like I said, if they get away with this, then they can go ahead and make people register their pistols as AOWs if they want to use both hands, which would create a de facto pistol registry. Who knows what can of nonsense that would open up. The ATF is pure evil.
Big Boy rules means to be aware of what is technically not permitted and then not being a dumbass and posting photos on Facebook or videos on YouTube of said dumbassery. Low profile, fly under the radar, etc.
OMFG…
No, people posting on Forums about the stupid things they do is why we have ATF letters about Sig Braces. Originally BATFE said it was OK to shoulder (I saw the letter) but so many people called and asked BATFE for clarification. BATFE even said if people would have left the issue alone they would not have changed their ruling. The moral of the story going forward is KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.
AGREE!!! reason is, I don’t think anyone in the history of the US has ever been arrested for putting a buffer tube against there shoulder. The reason why is because who enforces those rules? No one! Always keep your mouth shut, never rat on your friends and remember, what you do is your business.
Then why post the question?
That is a “grey” topic. Take the SigTac arm brace for example. When I purchased a brand new Sig m400 with a sig brace, it came with a copy of a letter from the BATFE stating that the device was designed for the purpose of using as an arm brace, but wouldn’t change the designation if one happened to use in a way that was not intended. They never said “yes you can put this sig brace up against the shoulder as you would a normal stock and fire this gun in that position”. It was kind of open ended. A few idiots got on youtube and made videos and other took to the internet to get the word out that there was a paperless SBR on the market causing some people interpreted the ATF letter one way, some people interpreted the letter another, because of that, a lot of people called the ATF and asked for permission basically! Permission to use the arm brace as a stock and fire from that position instead of placing your arm through the brace. After debate the ATF basically decided to re-classify the arm brace as just that, it could only be used as an arm brace. No one here is going to tell you yes or not when it comes to shouldering buffer tubes. That’s up to you.
Dear God, here we go again…
Op, don’t be that guy. Please. Delete your thread for the sake of humanity.