Some of the responses are getting kind of silly :rolleyes:
My observations on both optics.
1 Eotech has a good FOV
2 The 65 moa ring works good at 30 meters and closer range’s with COM hits on targets its intuitive and fast. At longer ranges I personally don’t like the 65moa ring.
If I were kicking in doors and going on raids pulling bad guys out of buildings that were planned before time. The eotech is great the battery life and the automatic 8 hr cut off would not be a concern.
The aimpoint on the other hand gets treated almost like Irons you turn it on and set it then you forget about it. It can be thrown in the corner for a month, or a year for all it matters its still on 24hrs 365 days actually its longer than that but you get the point.
Notice how the Swedish AK4B has the Iron sights chopped off and now the aimpoint is the only aiming device. How many battery powered RDS can claim this.
Last thing the aimpoint works on a far greater range of rifles. The eotech was primarily designed for the AR-15 every other rifle that doesn’t share the same tall sight arrangement the eotech starts getting awkward.
yes. because of the battery life. you turn an Aimpoint on, and leave it on, and barring mechanical failure of some kind, it’s gonna STILL be on until I change them every couple of years. I know these things have stupid battery life but nonetheless, I have come to distrust manufacturers claims about anything mechanical. that’s why I change batts EVERY year. that’s well within the lowest minimum design parameters. it’s cheap insurance, what can it hurt?
not so much with the Eotech. I don’t care what any manufacturer promises as far as battery life - that’s under ideal conditions - and doesn’t take into consideration the possibility of variables like the battery’s age, starting condition, temperature, etc. etc…
also, as far as the 8-hour timer shutting the Eotech off, I have picked mine up after lunch at an all-day training class and it had shut itself off. I know for a fact that I didn’t turn it off before I set it down and I don’t expect someone else was handling my gun without me knowing it. again, I don’t trust myself to what some manufacturer claims their product will do under ideal conditions. life isn’t ideal…
however, I do prefer the reticle of the Eotech as using the 65MOA circle is blazing fast for COM hits under 20 yards and there is the 1MOA dot if I want pinpoint accuracy. and as you mention, a magnifier works great with the 1MOA dot
it’s all about personal choice. this is how I make mine…
you miss a very important point here - an Eotech’s batteries will NOT last a year in continuous use. an Aimpoint’s will (or several times longer).
what you claim is not continuous use… you turn the Eotech on when you want to use it and turn it off (or let it turn itself off) when you put it away. however, before it can be used again, you have to turn it on and adjust the brightness and that is something I don’t want to have to mess with when the S hits the F.
using an Aimpoint in the manner you infer above, it should get 10-15-20 years battery life, but what’s your point? we’re not talking about saving pennies on batteries here, we’re talking about a weapon being immediately ready for use when you need it most…
You’d be hard pressed to keep an EOtech alive for a year. There’s been a lot of reports of them dying over long periods of time while OFF.
I’m not hating on EOtech by any means. L3 chose to use holographics for a reason. Battery life wasn’t one of them. There’s always a trade off.
My XPS2 gets nowhere NEAR the advertised battery life, and as I mentioned I run it on a lower power. The automatic shutoff is good and bad. It keeps the optic from going TU if you forget to turn it off. But if someone kicks open my bedroom door in the middle of the night… It’s the wrong time to wonder what time you turned it on or punched a button last.
The blinking warning helps… but again not if your asleep. It depends on your uses. Many people agree the 65moa ring is superior. If battery life or constant on isnt a concern… rock on.
There’s a lot of bearded men doing harsh things to bad people in the sandbox that love the EOtech. But that kind of plays into the “offensive” approach to EOtech. The people who deploy their EOtechs in combat tell me they Switch their batteries once a week or two to be safe. If the 65 moa ring helps you get a split second quicker reaction in a life or death situation… It’s worth replacing the batteries.
From a Homeowner role protecting his family from bumps in the night…it’s hard to beat an AimPoint. Given my experience with my XPS, I think AP still has the edge on durability and reliability.
One thing you don’t hear much about in favor of the EOtech - but is a feature I love - is how the reticle appears to “float” out past your muzzle. New owners often say the reticle looks “cracked” or “fuzzy”. When you focus on the target, it comes together just enough without being over powering on brightness. However, I find the improved FOV argument to be kind of gimmicky. With either EO or AP, I never really notice the tubes.
I don’t think I’m really missing the point. I just don’t happen to agree that it’s significant. There is no way that you’re going to be using the eotech and your rifle 24/7. Not even 8/7. Probably closer to 1/7, and that’s pushing it. So yes, I believe the battery will last a year. Heck, even if I chose to change it out every 6 months, that would be fine. We both agree that the cost of batteries is definitely not an issue.
I also don’t agree that turning it on again and adjusting the brightness is an issue. Even with the airmpoint; unless you can guarantee the time of day; indoor/outdoor; time of year; etc… that you’re going to need it; there’s just as much of a chance that you’re going to have to set the brightness on the aimpoint to. As for turning on the eotech, I don’t think that’s an issue. I can’t envision the scenario where you 1) Pick up the AR in your house; 2) Immediately aim it at your target; 3) And pull the trigger. I personally think that the 1/4th of a second it takes to turn it on isn’t an issue.
Me personally; if I was going to use the AR in the house at night; I would use my laser. I have the laser sighted in at 15 yards. I won’t be trying to look through sights in those conditions.
This is not a Aimpoint vs Eotech disagreement. I think they are both fantastic. I think they both will suffice and accomplish the mission. It’s a matter of personal preference. Nothing more. I just don’t happen to think battery life or having to hit a button to turn the sight on is an issue. Not in a civilian environment. We’re not going on a 5 day patrol where tensions are high 24/7. That’s my only disagreement. Battery life and turning the eotech on. Everything else between the two are outstanding. Just personal preference.
Also on the hybrid 65.1 reticule speed I find it very fast & intuitive. Also, the 1 MOA dot is actually smaller (website sez 1/3 MOA), and I found it quite usable at 200 yards.
Hard to argue with the Aimpoint batt life. EOTech has improved their life, and I wonder how current the conventional wisdom is. (Thought it will be hard to ever match the AP)
I did not find the 552 difficult to turn on even in the dark in a hurry, so I’d be OK for home defense usage as long as the batts don’t crap out in under 6 mths when off. (Supposedly lithiums absolutely do not)
One thing I don’t understand is the weight comments… EOTech weight includes the mount, and the current generation (XPS, etc) are roughly 8 oz, and even the 55x are 11.9oz. With the exception of the latest super light aimpoints, the sight alone weight was 8 oz, and the mounts averaged another 4 oz, pushing a COMPM4 with mount to 12 oz, same for COMPM2.
While the old AA battery (552?) EOTECH’s probably did weigh more with batteries than the AP with their lighter batts, the later EOTECH’s really close that gap with the N & DL versions. The sight & mount weight is very comparable now, as is the batteries.
I’ve not seen a weight on the PRO, but nothing makes me think it will be lighter. But does look like an ideal setup. Once I can go hands on with one I may give it a try.
christcorp I also don’t agree that turning it on again and adjusting the brightness is an issue. Even with the airmpoint; unless you can guarantee the time of day; indoor/outdoor; time of year; etc… that you’re going to need it; there’s just as much of a chance that you’re going to have to set the brightness on the aimpoint to. As for turning on the eotech, I don’t think that’s an issue. I can’t envision the scenario where you 1) Pick up the AR in your house; 2) Immediately aim it at your target; 3) And pull the trigger. I personally think that the 1/4th of a second it takes to turn it on isn’t an issue.
Not every home invasion starts with a window breaking giving you time to react. In-fact if a dirtbag has to resort to breaking a window telegraphing his intent he or they probably isn’t a seasoned veteran. There is a very good chance that you might not have time or the for thought to even get the sight turned on. I can really see this happening in the middle of the night in a dark room just being awakened from sleep.
I can respect that. But this is where I “Normally” piss someone off when I say:
“My AR is NOT my PRIMARY Home Defense weapon at 2am.”
Sorry; just isn’t. An AR, or similar carbine, definitely has it’s place for home defense. It’s just not my primary weapon. When I am woken up at 2am, and I’m half asleep, and my brain is racing 20 different directions trying to figure out what’s going on; I do NOT want to have to think about my weapon whatsoever. I don’t want to think about safeties, magazines, jams, sights, etc… My 2am, woken up in the middle of the night, weapon is: My S&W Model 13-1 357 magnum. I can have complete confidence in it. EMPHASIS: I’m talking about 2am; woken up from a dead sleep; NOT BEING 100% coherent; etc… Whole other option at 8pm while I’m watching tv. I don’t keep my AR in the bedroom next to my bed.
And maybe that’s why I disagree with the eotech vs aimpoint. I have a totally different perspective on home defense. I’ve been shooting and training with weapons for more than 30 years. And there’s plenty of others on this forum with as much, or more training. But for me, I have different weapons for different scenarios. I am fortunate. Not everyone can afford as many guns as I have. I have different weapons for different reasons. So when I am using my AR for whatever defensive reason I choose for it; battery life and turning on the eotech, or other sight that I have on my other AR, is not an issue. It’s not going to be my 2am half asleep gun; so it doesn’t matter.
And that is where I think so many of the topics turn into disagreements. We have to all realize that our purpose for a particular scenario or weapon, isn’t the only option. And we shouldn’t think that what or how we would do it, is the only right way. A person’s AR doesn’t HAVE to be their primary home defense weapon. Only the person living there can decide what is the best. Anyone saying tht they are wrong and should be using something else, is the one who is wrong. So when we talk about guns, sights, or whatever; I think the most important question to ask when a person wants opinions is: “What are you going to use it for”. For the person having their AR next to their bed at night, for whatever reason; maybe the always on Aimpoint is a better choice. For the person who will use their AR in a more controlled environment, where they have time on their side, always on with a 25 year battery life, might not be as important.
I used to be an EOtech fanboy until I purchased the Aimpoint Pro. I had the original EOtech 511 and went to the single dot XPS so Ive had my fill of the different models. I know alot of guys say that the Aimpoint doesnt have the same heads up or field of view. I thought the same until I realized the Aimpoint has roughly the same field of view WHEN YOU SHOOT WITH BOTH EYES OPEN. In my opinion, the EOtech only has one minor thing going for it, and that is a non-tinted view but am aware why Aimpoint has chosen to go that route.
I’m with christcorp, most home invasions are going to be dealt with using a handgun that is ON (or very nearby) the person being invaded. The carbine is great for fending off LA riot style looters or trouble you expect to be coming. 2 AM in your bedroom as a grab it and go? Not so much.
again, it’s not how long the stupid batteries last - it’s having your weapon sight already on when you pick it up.
an Aimpoint you can turn it on and leave on for 2, 3, 4, even 5 years - don’t turn it off at all! - and it will still be on and ready for use. you can’t do that with Eotech…
btw, you’ve never waken up with some criminal in your bedroom, have you?
And again; if I’m woken up at 2am, I’m not going to be grabbing my AR. 1) I don’t keep my AR along side of my bed. 2) I have been woken up at 2am, but not at my bedroom door. In that “State of mind”, I want the simplest weapon that my brain can operate. Something I don’t need to worry about safeties, magazines, physical failures, sights, etc… For me, my 2am weapon is my 357 magnum revolver. “Point and Click”.
And again, that what I prefer for my “Woken up at 2am gun”. My AR is for when I am in more control of the situation. But if you keep your AR right there next to you all the time; and you believe that you are just as alert after being woken up, as you are when wide awake; then definitely more power to you. Use your AR. I’ll use my AR for scenarios like the riots of the 60’s I lived through back in New Jersey. There’s definitely a lot of excellent defensive scenarios for the AR15. I just don’t believe 2am, after being woken up, is one of them. Therefor, the scenarios that I would use the AR in, a sight that is on 24/7 is not required. I will have the 1/4th of a second needed to turn it on. Again; I would never use the AR as my 2am, woken up by an intruder, weapon.
A 6-shooter as a primary defensive arm for when in an incoherent daze at 3:30AM?
You must be very confident in your marksmanship and stress handling in conditions that you don’t think you will even be able to reload a firearm in.
Really isn’t here or there, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but those that have to put their reputations at stake with their advice recommend something entirely different.
I’m not telling you that you are wrong, but you might want to do some research before planting your flag on this one.
My point with a long arm is having 3 points of contact I feel more secure not having it wrestled away from me. If it comes down to it I would have no compunction to muzzle strike with it or try my damn-est to wrap it around some ones skull :jester:if it no go bang, bang when I need it to.
If you think you are more proficient in the “3:30am Incoherent Daze” with an AR, then by all means use it. I don’t need to do any more research. Not for me. I have 50+ years of experience that I AM WILLING to risk my life on. A break in at 3am is NOT EXPECTING any form of resistance. Not if it’s a burglary. Now if the person has a vendetta against you, and their soul purpose is to kill you, that’s definitely a problem that needs to be addressed. I don’t have those enemies coming for me. So in a typical breaking and entering, unless cornered, any confrontation is going to result in the criminal leaving as soon as possible. So I’m not worried about reloading. I also don’t shoot blindly hoping to “Spray and Pray”.
But my main point is that our opinions are based off of our perceptions. If you perceive that your AR is going to be your primary weapon for the more likely home break in at 2am, and you feel comfortable using it in that “Incoherent State”; then having an ALWAYS ON Red-Dot type sight would seem more practical. If like me, you don’t believe that a break in at 2am is going to become a “Gun Fight” where 20+ rounds is being exchanged; and chances are, that a handgun will be the more practical weapon for “THAT PARTICULAR SCENARIO”; then an ALWAYS ON Red-Dot type sight isn’t as important. It’s all a matter of perspective. Not saying you are wrong either. Just that you might want to realize that not everyone will share you perspective. That your perspective, even if correct FOR YOU, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone else. So I have absolutely no problem planting this flag. You have your own flag. You’re free to plant it where you’d like. But perspective, experiences, expectations, etc… are individual. You can’t apply your scenario to everyone else.
But again; we have delved into a very finite scenario. A scenario that’s actually MORE PRACTICAL than most of the scenarios presented. Most are filled with paranoia, conspiracy theories, or fictitious adventures. For all of those, different weapons, sights, and strategies, definitely need to be considered. But for the more practical 2am home robbery, a totally different perspective should be looked at.
I am SO PROUD of you. You know exactly what to expect. I am envious. Again; you can use your AR at 2am. I’m not going to. What’s your problem? If it isn’t your way, it’s wrong? You believe that people plan on breaking in; coming to find you; kill you; then steel your stuff. That’s fine. You can believe that. You can prepare for that. That’s your perspective. And personally; I don’t give a shit what you THINK you know about me. I will take care of me and my family; you take care of yours.
