Thanks for the advice on swapping lowers and uppers.
Well thanks million times. I would hate to go to jail just for having a part in my house. I think the above suggestion is the one I will go with. Buy a regular AR unitl I get all the paper work done and approved then just get an SBR upper.
He’s got BRD bad, and he does not even have an AR yet! :eek: 
Approvals lately are taking 16 to 30 days. Just buy and lower (have it engraved) and them submit a Form 1 (to make a new SBR). Once approved and you have your Form 1 in hand with the tax stamp then buy/build a SBR upper.
We build everything from the group up.
It is cheaper to buy the upper and lower seperate (avoid the 11% FET).
C4
In that particular case the Govt was after him for lots of other things (like building a machine gun). I think that is why they tried to see if they could tack something else on. In my shop, I have tons of SBR uppers and tons of complete lowers. The ATF has zero issue with this.
I personally have no issue with buying an SBR upper first and then making a lower an SBR.
C4
It’s different. You have a SOT/7 or Class III license. The mope convicted & I assume the op does not.
I have that NOW. I didn’t have an FFL for MANY years and have spoken to my local ATF agents about it. They had no concerns. 
Edit to add, do you know how many dealers on ARFCOM alone that do not have an FFL and have tons of SBR’s sitting on their shelves???
C4
It’s not paranoid if they’re really out to get you.
This reminds me of a certain 'ponytail’ dealer at the VA gun shows. Talk about tinfoil.
No doubt and they were really out to get this guy. If your doing illegal chit (like building MG’s) the Govt will FIND things to charge you with.
Moral of the story, don’t build a MG.
C4
I understand that I have to fill out NFA paper work to put together a complete SBR. What I dont understand is what a trust has to do with obtaining an SBR and/or shorting the time it takes to get all the paper work completed for an SBR. Any information on these topics is appreciated. 
A Trust is like any other business entity like an LLC, S-Corp etc. It eliminates the need for fingerprint cards, CLEO signature, and passport photos. This is because you can’t fingerprint, take a picture of, nor can the Sheriff sign off and say a Trust isn’t a criminal.
So how does a person go about setting up a trust in order in order to avoid having to get finger prints, passport photos and or a CLEO signature? Is there a form I can find and fill out? Is there a website that I can learn more about these trust from? Do I need a lawyer to finalize the trust? Seem like a lot of work in order to get a SBR and/or suppressor.
No matter which route you go (CLEO or Trust), it’s a lot of work to get a suppressor or SBR.
The trust is more re-usable though when you go to get more NFA forms for future SBR’s, machine guns and suppressors.
The CLEO signoff will be the same amount of work each time.
For mine I used Quicken Willmaker 2006 on my home computer. I printed it out, had a friend that is an attorney look over it and then signed it in front of a notary. In Va it then is a legal entity with nothing else required (you need to find out about your state). Each time I fill out a Form 1 or 4 (you sent two copies) it’s in the name of the Trust with my address and then I sign my name with ‘Grantor and Trustee’ behind it, fill out a (federal form) Certificate of Compliance and along with it send in a copy Declaration of the Trust (it’s not a whole copy of the Trust). Nothing else required but sending it to ATF with a check for $200 and takes roughly 30days.
Not really, with a Trust already established legally registering a lower as an SBR is not too much different than a Title 1 gun in Va.
In Va for a Title 1 gun you go to your dealer and fill out a 4473 and a Va SP65 (State form) pay the Va State Police $2 for the back ground check (once approved you pay for it and take it home, it can take 3min or 3days most are 10-15min).
For a Trust transfer for a Title 2 gun (SBR/SBS on a Form 1) you fill out 2 copies of the Form 1 and 1 copy of the Certificate of Compliance and include a copy of your ‘Declaration of Trust’ mail it from home with a $200 check to the ATF, about 30 days later get 1 copy of the Form 1 back in the mail with your Tax Stamp on it and can assemble you new SBR/SBS. The receivers do need to have the name of the Trust engraved on them and I have mine engraved prior to sending in the Form 1s.
For a Trust transfer for a Suppressor it’s simliar (but on a Form 4, transfers of stuff already in NFA) you pay your NFA dealer for the can, mail in two copies of the Form 4, one copy of the Certificate of Compliance and a copy of the Declaration of Trust, include a check for $200 to ATF. The Dealer or you can mail it. When approved (about 30 days or less) the approved copy of the Form 4 will go to the dealer. You then go to pick it up from your dealer and fill out a 4473 and take it home (in Va no background check is done since ATF has already done one, In Va for machineguns you do need to register them with Va State Police and you can use the form on their website for this).
I am just trying to make sure I understand what everyone is telling me. Is there any other way besides going to a lawyer or using Quicken that I can make a legal Trust? I really appreciate everyones time on this matter. Maybe when this is finished someone should post it so others can read this information and not have to ask these questions again.
I just found out that there are different types of ‘Trust’. What type of trust would I be setting up in order to own NFA weapons?
Form 1 = to make a new NFA firearm
Form 4 = to transfer an existing NFA firearm
The address to send the forms to is located on the forms. You can get the forms and COCs from the ATF or any NFA dealer.
The Declaration of Trust is actually printed at the top of the the pages of my Trust.
Title 1 gun = one that isn’t part of the NFA, handguns, rifles with barrels 16" or greater, shotguns with 18" barrels or greater.
Title 2 gun = SBRs = short barreled rifles (less than 16" barrels), SBSs = short barreled shotguns (less than 18" barrels), fully automatic firearms (fires more than 1 round per trigger pull), AOWs= any other weapons, sound suppressors (silencers) etc.
Some of the forms may have the incorrect address at top.
Form 1s go to West Virginia, Form 4s go to Atlanta. There is a FAQ on TOS under General Class 3 that lists the full addresses.
If you get forms sent to you directly from ATF they will have the correct address to send to.