I finally got around to taking my HK USPc 9mm to the range last night (6 months after buying it, I might add).
Hung a target at 7yds and shot a magazine (13 rds) at one of the bullseyes. Almost all the shots were in one ragged hole, but they were to the left of the target by about 2-3". Loaded up another magazine… same thing. Another… and the same thing. Almost all the shots were touching, but they were consistently left of the target - 90* straight left.
Knowing that I was usually a pretty accurate shot, I tried using slow and steady aim (both eyes open) - same thing. I tried one more magazine, only this time I closed my non-dominant eye (left eye). The shots were dead center of the bullseye.
I hadn’t been shooting in a while due to being busy with other things, but I’ve never had the problem of shooting consistently left, even with both eyes open previously. I have better than 20/20 vision in both eyes (according to my class 1A flight physical), so it’s not a vision issue. My first assumption was a poor trigger pull, but that wasn’t it either.
Is this common? Can anything be done to help remedy it?
Really though, it sounds like it’s your trigger press. Happens a lot to right handed shooters. Try dry firing in the same manner and watch your muzzle dip low and left. A little practice pulling trigger gently back in straight line will most likely remedy your situation. It’s not practical to try and retrain your eyes.
Also, double check that rear sight. A simple mechanical error like that could be the culprit.
I’m sure you are more experienced than the average shooter, so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt but I know when I shoot my M&P9, I consistently shoot low about an inch…no matter how hard I try to not anticipate recoil or drive the gun too hard. I have pretty much decided that it is the trigger pull itself causing this, and not so much me (I could be wrong tho…) so MAYBE you have a similar problem
Have you tried it with the Apex FSS & Trigger yet? I figured any of the apex parts might help, but I dunno if I want to drop $150 if its not gonna make a difference…
I went with a buddy to the range and shot his XD40 and was able to hit a 1/2" pastie on the money whereas my M&P was low…kinda glad to hear I’m not the only one experiencing this to be honest…I’m ok with the “combat accuracy” that I’m getting out of it, but I want to wring out the accuracy to make sure I’m still doing my job when I go practice…
My 9mm FS M&P shoots low at 30 ft. with a combat sight picture and 124 grain loads travelling at 1100 fps. If I drive to the dot, it shoots point of aim. You may want try that sight picture, or get a lower Dawson Precision front sight.
next time you’re at the range, bring two guns, and shoot them both with your dominant eye, then both eyes open. if you get a POI shift with both guns, the issue isn’t with the USPc.
if it happens again with the USPc and not with the other pistol, then it’s the USPc.
i’m wondering if it’s the same kind of phenomenon that folks experience when they use an aimpoint with the front cap closed as an OEG. sometimes, a very big POI can be seen between looking through the aimpoint tube vs looking at the dot. something to do with misalignment of the eyes.
I suppose it could be an issue with “phoria”, but there isn’t enough evidence to support that. It would depend on a few variables.
Usually to have a problem with phoria, one eye has to be occluded, or enough occlusion has to happen with one eye for the two eyes to dissociate. I’m not sure how much that could happen while shooting a handgun.
I had this problem with my P2000. I had consistent tight groups but always left [I am also right handed].
The issue dissapeared after I had a coworker stipple the backstrap. The only thing I can figure is there was a change in my grip/trigger press at the last second allowing the gun to shift when fired, albeit very consistently. With the stippling the gun can’t slip as easily.
I still have the issue with my M&P, but when I shoot wearing gloves it also seems to help.
Do you have uncorrected hyperopia (farsightedness)? People with smaller amounts of hyperopia can still see 20/20, but may have other issues. It may not necessarily be an issue with your visual acuity, as evidenced by your 20/20 vision, but it could be a problem with your binocular function.
If you don’t mind me asking, about how old are you? Phorias and other binocular issues sometimes become worse with time and are more noticeable as people age past 35.
You might want to check to see if you have a phoria, but I’m not sure how this would manifest itself when you are shooting a handgun.
You can test if you have phoria very easily at home. Take a small paster or target (anything to give you a very small point to focus on, like the letter “V” and look at the bottom of it) and tape it to the wall. Try to stand about 20 feet away from it. (This will determine your phoria at distance)
Next, cover your left eye with your hand (playing card, 3x5 card, whatever works) and fixate on the point with your right eye. Then quickly move the occluder/your hand to the right eye and attempt to focus on the same point with your left eye. If you notice that the dot you were fixating on moves at all, then you have a phoria. You can then repeat this by moving the occluder from the right eye back to the left.
It’s important to cover the eye for at least a one or two second interval (two is better) before moving it to the other eye. This will allow for a greater amount of dissociation so you can see just how big the deviation really is.
If the fixation dot/target moves “WITH” (in the same direction as) your hand/occluder moving, then you have a exo-phoria…your eyes naturally point away from each other or diverge.
If the fixation dot moves “AGAINST” (opposite direction as) your hand/occluder is moving, then you have a eso-phoria…your eyes naturally point towards each other, or converge.
If you notice that it moves up and down, then you have a vertical phoria.
You can also repeat the phoria measurement at any distance you desire to determine the phoria at that distance. The test done at 40 cm is generally regarded as the near phoria. People can have different phorias at distance and near.
One quick way to find out if it’s you or the gun. Attach a red dot laser and watch what happens to the dot on the target as you pull the trigger using the sights to aim.
If your trigger pull isn’t the issue, then the gun has been sighted in by a left-eye dominate person!
You may also no longer be right-eye dominant (has nothing to do with your quality of vision) - or you are shooting it at a distance closer to your face than you usually do making the shift even more pronounced. Your options are to either drift sights, center aim more towards left side, or increase distance from your face. Obviously, consistent hold is critical, so I’d drift that sight and move on.
If I shoot both eyes open, focused on the front sight, I see 2 targets. I always just pick the right hand one.
Sounds like an eye dominance problem since it changes with your eye, but one quick check.
Are you getting too much trigger finger in the trigger? Maybe you are “biceping” the trigger and pushing is subtly to the left as you squeeze. Especially if you have the DA/SA trigger varient.
I do this sometimes on Glocks if I put too much finger on the trigger.
Don’t get crazy. Check the easy first. See if the pistols mechanical zero is correct or not and work from there.
Do you do this with other pistols? As mentioned shoot a couple of weapons both from a rested position and compare. Or simply let another good shooter fire the weapon. If you are shooting a small ragged hole at 7 yards consistently, even though I have seen shooters consistently push or pull, generally this is indicative of a sight issue and simply pushing the rear sight will correct the POI. In other words check the weapon first before trying to look at eye issues or technique / fundamentals. People with fundamental or eye issues will have a much less likelihood of shooting consistent small groups.
but I know when I shoot my M&P9, I consistently shoot low about an inch…no matter how hard I try to not anticipate recoil or drive the gun too hard. I have pretty much decided that it is the trigger pull itself causing this, and not so much me (I could be wrong tho…) so MAYBE you have a similar problem 