Ive been known to on occasion, although its usually a 10" or 14.5" gun that I take out…
AAC website has the M4-2000 at a 32-34 db reduction. What is the difference between using the suppressor or plugs? I do notice a difference between my 10.5" and my 18" AR suppressed.
Jk
33 dB reduction at the muzzle is much different than 33 dB reduction in your ear.
With no plugs and the can, you still have a lot of action noise and bullet flight noise.
I shoot suppressed with no hearing protection on occasion, but I don’t recommend it. I already have two hearing aids so how much more can it do? :eek:
I don’t know where they’re metering. I can guarantee a properly worn set of orange plugs is monumentally quieter than any 556 can I’ve ever heard.
Not having to wear ear pro is near the very bottom of my reasons for owning suppressors. There’s a ton of reasons for them, real world and recreational, that can be found here on M4C.
As MarkM said, plugs do more than any can…because plugs block anything making noise from going into your ear at full blast.
The can suppresses the muzzle report of the rifle…not all of the loud shit that occurs when you fire a rifle. I wear hearing protection if for no other reason than the fact that it can’t hurt. I mean, they’re your ears. Do with them as you wish and hold out for an ear transplant.
I know a semi will be louder because of the action, but what about a bolt gun. Does anyone know what the sonic crack meters at?
Jk
Depends where you put the metering device. WOW! We’ve stood down range of a guy firing a supressed rifle… and it hurts your ears.
I’m talking 20 yards out front and off to the side of the weapon.
The flight noise of a .308 is c. 150 dB measured 1m from the flight path.
With regards to bolt action rifles, yes they are quieter at the shooters ear as there is no noise from the ejection port.
With regards to 5.56 mm assault rifles and carbines, a couple of suppressed reference numbers from our testing, right handed shooter, right ear:
- M4 carbine 14.5", c.142-145 dB
- HK416 10", c. 139-140 dB
- HK416 14.5", c. 136-138 dB
At the left ear the figures are lower, c. 131-136 dB for all of the above weapons.
So we are looking at c. 12-20 dB net sound suppression at the right ear and 25-28 dB at the left ear
(156-159 dB unsuppressed at both ears )
Regards!
Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors
Yeah… you can definitely tell the right ear catches the most noise. The gas snap at the ejection port is just at the point where it’s starting to hurt your ear a little.
Here’s a general reference for bullet flight noise versus velocity…
It shows clearly why any rifle with supersonic ammo will never be quiet… and why there is a low end limit for overall sound levels you can achieve.
Even with the best cans eliminating 90% of the muzzle blast noise, you still are getting right around 140 dB from the bullet itself…
This is why i don’t consider ANY suppressed supersonic guns to be hearing safe. At best, they are hearing SAFER.
Important to note that that does not erase all the other benefits to a can. And 135-140dB is A LOT quieter than 165+ dB.
Jason, to further comment on your post, it is the muzzle blast that is causing the hearing damage to the shooter, not the flight noise to the shooters front.
And that can be very effectively suppressed with modern suppressor designs.
There is an ongoing thread on this over at AR15.com as well and once I get the permission, I will post the details and graphs from an extensive sound suppression test conducted here some years back.
They had meters at the shooters ear and at varying distances 360 degrees around the shooter.
markm, in a sense the human ear is a pretty good meter, so when you start experiencing that, it is usually an indication that you are going over 140 dB.
Regards!
Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors
Makes sense. And when you’re off the gun, next to or behind the shooter, there’s no discomfort from the can or the supersonice projectile.
I’m new to suppressors, got an M4-2000 recently and just yesterday I was shooting suppressed. (I’ve been trying to make Sundays my range days.)
Anyway I shot suppressed with ear pro, without ear pro and then without the suppressor mounted. The differences are very noticeable, especially on a 10.5" gun.
It’s good to know that if I had to shoot suppressed without ear protection than I can without destroying my hearing but since it’s training, I see no reason not have my earplugs in.
My approach is different. I won’t even shoot my can on anything shorter than 14.5 because the port noise hurts my right ear.
Thanks for posting that chart Jason.
Anyone who has ever pulled targets on a highpower style range will know that even at 600yards a 77 or 80gr SMK is loud enough to hurt.
I value my long-term hearing. Suppressed doesn’t = quiet.
Does this thread make anyone ask the question why do I need a suppressor?
Sure there are som that are heavily trained and into competitions and do a lot of shooting where there is value to the suppressor that outweigh the huge negatives.
But there is a niche for the 11.5" AR non-suppressed with a pair of e-muffs QD’d, its a fine choice to keep the barrel short and the weight low and forgo the silencer. Honestly 90% jumping on the SBR + suppressor bandwagon aren’t really thinking it thru and just copying something OSHA influenced the feds into.
Nope… For me it is not about need. I wanted it, so I got it. It’s that simple. I sure don’t need a belt fed, but I would have one if I could afford it.
Jk
I recently got the AAC SPR/M4 for my AR’s. I have it on a 16" barrel with the SPR/M4 Brakeout, and on an 18" barrel with the SPR/M4 Blackout. The 18" AR seems way quieter than the 16’. I’m not entirely sure if its the extra 2" of barrel or the different suppressor attachments, (brakeout vs blackout). I shoot the 18" comfortably without ear pro for a few mags with no ringing or any side affects that I can tell (although there may still be some hearing damage due to the action). Switch to the 16" and after one mag I’m reaching for my SF plugs. I hate having to wear plugs after spending so much on a can and stamp, but my hearing is kinda important to me. My wife hates repeating herself and I hate saying ‘huh?’ all the time as it is already.
My next step is to get a 11.5" or 12.5" SBR. I already know I will have to wear some type of plugs or muffs with it even with the can on, and I think I’m ok with that. I have an AAC Element pending for the really quiet fun stuff.