If it is reliable and shoots well, does it matter where the brass goes?
If anybody notices some missing posts, I ditched the ones where some bunch of 'mos were either metaphorically displaying or talking about their wedding tackle.
Take the hint.
In the end, I’m sure most will agree that this whole discussion is trivial. But someone asked a question and a discussion was started. And as we all know, no question is stupid. That’s how we all learn. It was actually a good question given all the differing “opinions” on the subject.
Things are designed to certain specs for a reason. The tires on your vehicle may be engineered “ideally” for 32 psi. Will there be much negative consequences if you run them at 30 or 28 psi? Of course not, but ideally they were designed for optimal gas mileage, wear, balance etc at 32 psi. Armalite also designed the “ideal” pattern that they strive for to be 1-3 for a reason…to allow for wear.
I can also think of one situaton where the ejection pattern may matter more. Anyone running an offset mount optic of any type. You cant that rifle 45 degrees and if your brass is already spittin out at 5:00 or south, that hot brass is now coming dangerously close to your forehead and not over your ear or head.
So yea it can matter IMHO. But I’m sure others will say if you pull the trigger and it goes “bang” it’s fine just shoot it.
Another thought…Is it better to have brass flying into your field of vision (1:00-2:00) or out of your FOV (3:00 and beyond)?
From a tactical standpoint, who can successfully argue against the premise that the optimal situation is that the only thing moving in your FOV, in a tense situation, is the BG or enemy combatant?
Looking back at the much disputed chart of “the perfect ejection pattern”, I can see why whoever created that chart listed the 3:00-4:30 as the perfect ejection pattern. If there is such a thing as, or we’re trying to theoretically define “the perfect ejection pattern”, I’m inclined to agree, it allows for wear and keeps your FOV unobstructed, or distracted. Of course if your weapons are strictly for bench shooting or shooting coyotes none of this matters. But in a tactical situation, every advantage helps! No matter how slight.
+1,
also surprised where it is ejecting to, but if its running dont mess with it.
Would ammo choice come into factor here?? My DD threw brass to my 3:30 at about 7’. When I switched to Wolf, Tula etc…most were 1-2 o’clock and even a few “dribbled” out of the port. Needless to say my DD did NOT like steel case.
Of course…that was mentioned several times in the various threads.
In addition, not only will the powder charge of different ammo have an effect on the action and thus ejection, but the brass cases are slightly heavier than steel as well so the lighter steel could be getting flung faster and harder which is why the more forward ejection. The one iffy variable is that steel case ammo is often underpowered in compared to xm193 or other milspec ammo which would normally cause the carrier group to close slower and tend to eject gentler and towards 6:00. Hard (no impossible) to diagnose without knowing the specifics of both brands of ammo. But then another variable is thrown into the mix because steel is harder than brass and the ejection of steel is believed to be harder on weapons.
The only time I would take any of this to heart is if your weapon is a shtf, HD or duty weapon. Knowing where the cases spit with different kinds of ammo can be, may be useful to some of us. I’ve outlined all the logic, reasoning and evidence throughout this thread. However, we’ll probably see some come along and state that this whole thread is one big waste of time without producing one shred of evidence or logical, intelligent reason where the information is flawed. That’s just to be expected I’ve learned. Not a slam on anyone just a factual observation in a few short months. Most on this site are great but there’s always a few in every crowd! I love this site though. I’m a former Marine and have been shooting this weapon for over 30 years and I have learned much through this site. Doesn’t matter how much you think you know, there’s always something to learn.
IF I were to tweak at all, (everybody see that big bolded italicized IF?) it would be the good ammo, know where it lands, and shoot the crap out of the cheap stuff and don’t give a crap where the cheap stuff lands.
I had about the same…all cases (steel or brass) were flying out at 330 but steel flew about half as far
Why not? Frankly I don’t understand this timid intrepidation to experiment, have fun and learn by changing a few parts or springs or cutting springs. Its completely reversible.
The rule of troubleshooting anything is to change 1 thing at a time, observe the effect. You can always put it back the way it was if you don’t like the desired effect. No one is suggesting opening up gas ports or something permanent. Do it, have fun. learn and grow your confidence in your weapon and get it to exactly how you want it if you can. For the most part we’re talking about very minor tweaks.
Because ejection pattern can be a symptom of an undesirable state of the gun, but is not in and of itself an undesirable state if it does not result in brass that travels X distance (+/-Y) and in Z degrees from the port.
What’s getting lost, and is continually getting lost, is that it’s only ONE possible symptom. If other symptoms exist, then it’s one that can be used as a rough kinda-sorta diagnostic tool, but if no other symptoms exist (much less an identifiable problem, to begin with), folks will start cranking on sticks and end up with a problem that would not otherwise have existed if they’d just cared a bit more for where their bullets were going, instead of the brass.
Needless dicking about can start masking things. I think it’s less an admonition to not experiment than it is one to be very methodical if one does decide to do so.
That really is the key! Go slow and methodical. 1 thing at a time.
Remember that condition of your extractor, extractor spring, insert, and o-ring (if being used) as well as the ejector and spring, and lubrication of the above can play a factor.
Not that I care, but I’ve also noticed that different ammo types, steel versus brass casings, hotter loads, all will make a difference where that empty case goes.
If the brass is barely leaving the weapon and landing right beside your feet, then you should start troubleshooting. Some of the service rifle/highpower guys will but ejector springs down so their brass doesn’t eject as far and ejects in tighter clumps. Their goal in this is to make the brass easier to police. Go figure.