I recently got my concealed carry permit, and have to choose between three of my handguns to carry:
Springfield Pro (Series 70)
Colt Combat Commander (Series 80)
SIG P228
I want to carry one of the 1911’s seeing as the thinner profile seems like it would conceal better. I have no qualms about carrying the Combat Commander. Grip safety, thumb safety, and FPS.
The SA pro however, only has the grip and thumb safeties which I am convinced are enough to keep a fully functional gun from discharging. BUT, if the sear had a catastrophic failure, wouldn’t that allow the hammer to go forward and fire the weapon?
I realize that the odds are slim to none in a quality firearm like the Pro…but as the saying goes “the odds are slim until it happens to you.”
I’ve never seen nor heard of a sear spontaneously breaking while the pistol was at full-cock. Much less one breaking while at full-cock and causing the gun to discharge. That’s not to say it can’t happen, just that in all my experience it’s not something I’ve seen.
To the best of my recollection, all of the sears that I have personally seen break have done so at the nose due to some sort of “shock“. In these cases the sears broke due to improper installation, the hammer repeatedly falling or being forced to half-cock, or due to a fluke parts breakage. In one case I recall a sear breaking while I was actually firing the gun and the gun continued to function. In all of the instances that I remember none of the broken sears caused the hammer to fall to half-cock nor fall off or miss the full-cock notch at all. As such, the gun still worked as designed with the main indicator of something wrong being a very heavy and/or gritty trigger pull. The sear noses were broken but there was still more than enough of the part intact to keep the hammer from falling all the way to the firing pin.
In at least theory, the design of the parts necessitates that the sear would almost have to break in half at the pin in order for the hammer to fall and not be stopped on the half-cock notch.
It’s also noteworthy to mention that a broken sear is comparatively a pretty rare thing. I have seen far more broken slide stops, firing pin stops, sights, mag-catches, and thumb safeties.
Chris and Burton or other 1911 afecianado could answer better but it’s my understanding the thumb safety does not block the hammer, it blocks the sear. If the hammer falls without pulling the trigger it should hit the half cock notch on the hammer.
The thumb safety does not block the hammer directly, but the sear. In that sense is a less positive safety than other designs.
The grip safety also only locks the trigger rearward travel to avoid moving the disconnector and trip the sear. It is an even less positive safety.
The hammer safety nocth catches the hammer (with the sear, obviously) if it slipped the full cock notch for some reason, without full movement of the sear. I’ve seen it fail.
In my opinion, the S80 firing pin safety adds a nice margin of safety to the 1911. No full depression of the trigger, no bang (save for a safety plunger stuck in the up position, ultra rare). No downsides for it, only have to be careful to reassemble correctly and test functioning.
That being said, I think that a 1911 without FP safety but with all firing parts of quality and carefully fitted and regulated is more than safe enough.
The thumb safety locks the sear in place preventing it from pivoting on its pin and thus releasing the hammer.
The thumb safety also impedes the movement of the hammer when the safety is in the “on” position and, in theory, could block the hammer’s forward movement should an unlikely catastrophic sear failure occur.
There are, however, other variables at play such as the strength of the plunger tube/safety detent and how firmly it holds the safety in the “on“ position. I checked some of the 1911s I own, and while none of them had thumb safeties that would prevent the hammer from falling to the firing pin when the sear had been removed, in all instances the hammer was significantly slowed and with two of the guns the hammer paused on the thumb safety before pushing it out of the way.
All that said, if the sear fails or for whatever reason the hammer begins to fall without pressing the trigger the half-cock notch is the built in safety net.
Thanks for the very detailed responses!! Exploring this in detail has given me the confidence to carry the 70 series 1911. Thanks again for the detailed replies!!
In my younger days, I carried my cocked and locked 1911 in a holster with a thumb break. The leather between the hammer and slide made me feel safer. Now I know better and use a open top holster.
If a cocked and locked 1911 falls and takes a hard hit on the hammer, with the pistol pointing UP, all that is keeping it from firing is a (hopefully) tight fitted safety that blocks the sear from moving, that precious 0.02" or so (in height) of the sear contacting the hammer hooks, maybe less depending on the engagement angle, and a the hammer safety notch.
It would not be difficult for the sear tip to get damaged and slip, but probably the damage would not be large enough to prevent it from catching the safety notch. Unless a large part of the sear tip breaks…
Might be more difficult than you think. The hammer is already in contact with the sear. Not only is there no “shock” to the sear caused by movement of the hammer but the sear only needs to pivot on its pin in order to catch the hammer in the half-cock notch. All that would be required is that the sear still have tension from the sear spring and as the hammer rotated forward what’s left of the sear nose would catch the half-cock notch.
The sear would have to break pretty close to (or at) the pin hole before it lacked enough length or range of motion required to catch the hammer in the half-cock notch.
Let’s also not forget the certain level of protection that a beavertail gives the hammer in “modern” 1911s.
Of course all of this assumes a properly built 1911 constructed of quality components. Even still, as with anything else mechanical I suppose anything is possible.
Bob, great pictures! I only want to add that a “modern” 1911 has far less height in the hammer hooks than the military 1911A1 pictured, that probably has about 0.028"+ hooks.
Jason, I’m not a pro but I’ve seen a 1911 fire when falling (with no damage to sear or hooks) in spite of apparently passing all safety tests before. It was at a time when I was far less knowledgeable about 1911 internals (not that I’m a master now, anyway), so probable there were one or more factors involved that I don’t know about (faulty materials or pistolsmith, bad sear tip engagement or angle, sear spring adjustment ???), so my confidence is somewhat limited.
Edited to add: this was without the safety on, so is not really related to “sear failure”, but in this ocasion the safety notch did not catch the hammer.
I agree that when everything is just right and all parts are of good materials the potential for failure is very slim and I would be confident with it, but IMO a modern FP safety really adds a vey nice margin of safety.
