I am sending in my SCAR 16 SBR paperwork this week and can’t decide on a barrel length. I really like the 10.5" look but have reservations about going that short. My issues are how hard it is on the rifle and the suppressor.
I don’t shoot much more than 200yds, and that’s few and far between. Most of my shots are under 80yds and on the move. I go through roughly 4000rds a year. I will be buying a can at the end of the year, which is warrantied on 10.5" and longer barrels.
So, do I go for it and chop it to 10.5, or a more “reasonable” length like 11.5" like I had originally planned on my AR(prior to buying the SCAR). Any compelling reasons to go with one or the other?
There seem to be some logical friction points inherent in your post.
First, you appear to be making a decision based upon liking the 10.5" look, when that is probably the least relevant consideration of all. If you intend to suppress the weapon, and optimize the entire package for close-in roles, then it makes a certain amount of sense to go as short as is “ballistically reasonable,” no?
Second, you seem to be overlooking the fact that the factory CQB barrel for this platform is 10" (not 10.5") in length. It is not rational to assume that a barrel of this length would be a poor choice when that is what FN chose as the standard. Is the shorter barrel going to harder on the weapon overall? Absolutely – such is the nature of short rifle barrels. Is this going to be a particularly relevant concern in non-select-fire civil applications? I seriously doubt it. The SCAR is a pretty robust weapon by design, and I think it is safe to say that the engineers have already accounted for heavy use in CQB configurations
Third, you’re not necessarily accounting for the fact that many aftermarket SCAR barrel conversions have resulted in costly single-shot rifles, and some caution is warranted here. I’m still holding out hope for a factory 10" barrel option, but if I do go the conversion route, I’m going to (a) be very careful about who does the work, and (b) limit the chop job to a standard factory length, meaning 10" for a 16s or 13" for a 17s. That way, we’re at least attempting to conform to a known standard of some kind, and any problems encountered could at least be compared to a factory baseline; especially where gas port tuning is concerned.
Do the NFA paperwork for 10", and if you decide you want to go with something else later on, it is an easy matter to send in a follow-on letter to clarify that your SBR is now equipped with a 12.5" (or whatever length) barrel. You don’t need permission to do this, of course, but most savvy owners would view this as a wise good faith gesture when dealing with an NFA restricted firearm.
I see what you are saying and am definitely approaching this with caution and research.
To answer your points;
Yes, I like the look of the 10-10.5", I mean isn’t that a lot of the reason that most of us choose to SBR? But looks are not my “main” priority. As for the ballistically reasonable aspect, that is one of my issues with the 10.0 vs the 11.5. The 11.5 seems to be a decent compromise based on fragmentation and FPS from the charts I’ve seen.
The 10.5" number comes from the mimumum length that some suppressor companies will warranty their cans for, coupled with the ballistics of the 10" barrel. What is your opinion of say, a 12" Colt AR? That is not what military spec is, does that make it a poor choice for a rifle? In my opinion, no. I think it suits the civilian owner’s needs. My original intention was to SBR my ar to an 11.5-12" because I had waited for SCAR barrels for quite some time. Once I looked at guys like stephen_ 101 and buddy, who had no issues, I decided to pick one up and start the process.
Over all the forums I visit, I have not seen a SCAR turn in to a single shot. I have seen people that have tuning issues with bolt lock on the last round with certain lengths, but that seems to be fairly well documented and there are charts out there that show the correlation of gas port size and barrel length. Do you have any links to SCARs being trashed after a barrel chop? Not a challenge mind you, just that I like to have all my “ducks in a row” before I jump head first into something like this and would like to see the bad with the good.
My barrel work would be done by Marvin Pitts at Nefarious Arms, who I’m sure if you own a SCAR, has come across your screen many times concerning a SCAR SBR.
Good idea on sending the Form 1 as a 10" then ammending later once I decide.
I’ve got close to 5K documented rounds (all suppressed with Gemtech G5) through my 10" barreled 16S. I had Marvin Pitts do the work and have had zero issues. Accuracy and reliability have been unchanged (after tuning the gas port to properly cycle the shorter barrel).
Thanks for the reply Stephen. Do you have any knowledge of owners who have killed their SCAR with a barrel cut?
I’m thinking a 10.5" since the early adopters have a good handle on gas port size. I can’t imagine a half inch causing that much trouble…knocks on wood
Actually, not to step on any toes, but no – most of us who opt for an SBR configuration do so because it is better suited to CQB work because it is shorter, and therefore, faster handling.
What is your opinion of say, a 12" Colt AR? That is not what military spec is, does that make it a poor choice for a rifle? In my opinion, no. I think it suits the civilian owner’s needs.
Noveske is doing some great things with 12.5" guns, and if the intent is to keep the gun in an unsuppressed configuration, I think that represents a near-ideal compromise. For guns that are likely to see use with a can, whether full or part-time, I think Colt’s original Commando configuration at 11.5" is/was a good choice.
Over all the forums I visit, I have not seen a SCAR turn in to a single shot.
Understand where you’re coming from, and you’re asking intelligent questions, but consider this: the number of industry experts who are willing to engage on public discussion forums is exceedingly small. We’ve got more than our share here, and are blessed to have them, but generally speaking, those “in the know” tend not to devote a lot of time to online pursuits. They do, however, quietly discuss such things among their peers, and while I would stop well short of saying that every conversion is a disaster (it isn’t), if you queried even a small sampling of those on the instructional circuit, you would discover that the evidence for my earlier observation reaches well beyond the anecdotal.
My barrel work would be done by Marvin Pitts at Nefarious Arms …
Mr. Pitts would be my first choice, as well. I still find a certain wisdom in staying fairly close to OEM configurations, where the “correct” dimensions can be gleaned from a factory barrel, but I’m not suggesting that the boys at Nefarious can’t find the right recipe. I’m simply an adherent of removing as much of the margin for error from the process as possible. That also happens to be why I’m still waiting for a factory CQB barrel, because once you cut the 16" tube, there is no going back, and no way to go back to FN USA for remedial service.
All in all, I think you’re considering the points that need to be considered; I’m just not feeling quite so confident about aftermarket cutting jobs to non-standard lengths. If you’re willing to go through a potential “trial by fire” period in order to find what works, then by all means have at it. In the end, even at FN’s own 10" specification we’re still rolling the dice to some extent. If you’re got the stones (and/or dollars) to undertake it, well … sometimes fortune really does favor the bold.
That was more in jest, hence the We carry 10.3" 6920’s, so I am familiar with the CQB aspect. The look comment was more because this is not an issued rifle, so the chances of me clearing a house with it on a callout are slim to none. Also, the 10" just looks right on the SCAR.
Understand where you’re coming from, and you’re asking intelligent questions, but consider this: the number of industry experts who are willing to engage on public discussion forums is exceedingly small. We’ve got more than our share here, and are blessed to have them, but generally speaking, those “in the know” tend not to devote a lot of time to online pursuits. They do, however, quietly discuss such things among their peers, and while I would stop well short of saying that every conversion is a disaster (it isn’t), if you queried even a small sampling of those on the instructional circuit, you would discover that the evidence for my earlier observation reaches well beyond the anecdotal.
Interesting comment. I wonder what the % of SCARs have problems? I’ve never spoken to anyone in the industry per se and I have no earthly idea, but you would think with the proliferation of the internet that someone would show up with a problem. I don’t have an exact count, but I would say somewhere around 30-50 SCARs are posted in various forums that are running trouble free. They range from 10"-14.5" with a pinned FH. I mean, people chop AR barrels all day to some weird ass sizes and with a little tuning they work. Granted, replacement barrels are everywhere, which is why it has taken me so long to make the leap and consider the cut on a $2k rifle. I’ve read every thread to the end of the internet about pros and cons of cutting and have only heard of some lock back issues after the initial cut/prior to tuning.
I have spoken with FN and while they did state that the warranty would be null, they also didn’t seem to have much concern, stating that as long as its done by someone who knows what they are doing and you don’t care to tune it, there shouldn’t be an issue. Someone else, Stephen maybe? got the same answer.
Damn you and your reasonable thoughts!
Mr. Pitts would be my first choice, as well. I still find a certain wisdom in staying fairly close to OEM configurations, where the “correct” dimensions can be gleaned from a factory barrel, but I’m not suggesting that the boys at Nefarious can’t find the right recipe. I’m simply an adherent of removing as much of the margin for error from the process as possible. That also happens to be why I’m still waiting for a factory CQB barrel, because once you cut the 16" tube, there is no going back, and no way to go back to FN USA for remedial service.
All in all, I think you’re considering the points that need to be considered; I’m just not feeling quite so confident about aftermarket cutting jobs to non-standard lengths. If you’re willing to go through a potential “trial by fire” period in order to find what works, then by all means have at it. In the end, even at FN’s own 10" specification we’re still rolling the dice to some extent. If you’re got the stones (and/or dollars) to undertake it, well … sometimes fortune really does favor the bold.
AC
I hear you. I just wish FN would give us a date on the darn things, if at all. The resonable side of me says leave it alone and just get the can now. The shooter side of me says, screw it, it’s worked before, it will work now. Any inside info on aftermarket barrels? I know hi-desert has some replacements but they are pretty high.
I’ve also read that PD’s and Class 3’s would be able to order spare barrels. I’ve never put much faith in it since, that being the case, there would be actual spare barrels in hands by now. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor?
I think you picked the right man for the chop job…And while I completely understand the rational behind staying with the factory standard 10" length, it does call into question any issues you may run into when using a suppressor warranted to 10.5" while leaving no margin for error.
You could always go 11.5" which would cause no issue’s with the suppressor warranty, be easier on the can, give you slightly better ballistics, and if something didn’t work out with the barrel-chop (chrome flaking or some such issue), your smith would have room to try again and take it down to 10.5"
Tuning the gas port to a non-standard length may be a little more of a hassle, but I don’t think it’s rocket science. Just remove a little material from the port plug at a time until the rifle is functioning to your liking. If you goof it up and ream it out too much…just get another and start over.
Edit-Disregard my last. You guys do what you like with your guns. I have not heard of any issues with a professionally cut SCAR barrel (or any chrome-lined barrel for that matter).
I’m fairly certain that there are still no real answers to be had, but we are continuing to hold on to hope that these will be forthcoming at some point in the future.
Nobody knows, but they will eventually appear sometime on the market one way or another. It is only a matter of time before they begin to “magically disappear” from military units and end up on the ad boards.
Nobody knows. Which is why some of us are bold/brave/stupid enough to cut them down now. If I could assure one in the next 6-8 months, I’d probably wait. I figure if I put my paperwork in and wait the 3 months, we may hear something by then.
There is a great thread on FN Forums where “Strongbow” extrapolated the port sizes for the SCAR based off the gas control screw sizes and supporting evidence from folks that had to open the port up after a barrel chop.
But looks are not my “main” priority. As for the ballistically reasonable aspect, that is one of my issues with the 10.0 vs the 11.5. The 11.5 seems to be a decent compromise based on fragmentation and FPS from the charts I’ve seen.