Not arguing, but what AR-10 is as light and reliable as a Scar-17? I totally agree that they should include a rail extension, and accept that the stock hinge should be improved (although none of my three have ever had issues, but I don’t do anything wild with my rifles). But my impression is that the scar-17’s weight and reliability is class-leading.
It has some advantages over AR platforms, but in my opinion they are minor. But more to the point my SIG 550 series dances circles around it, especially my 551-2 SWAT (especially suppressed). I couldn’t get my SCAR to perform anywhere even close to my SIGs. And while we are at it, my HK 93 was generally more accurate and also suppresses well. The 93 might not be as handy or as light, but with the lightweight keymod rails they make now even that rifle is pretty close. The downside is obviously optics options and mag changes aren’t as fast unless you own a 33 or 33k. The upside is the HK rifle is far more robust and durable.
I guess what disappoints me most about the SCAR is what is should have been. It really should have been FN’s crown jewel and the rifle that changed everything, but it wasn’t. And that’s really a shame because FN is a very capable designer and weapon manufacturer, but every so often they come up short.
SR25 acc- 8 lb. 4oz
Sig tread - 8.5lb
M&P10 SPORT - 8lb
POF Revelution - 7.3lbs
V7 harbinger - 6.5lb
I would be interested in any objective data comparing reliabity. My suspicion is the only one that might actually get a real shakedown would be the KAC.
KAC as we know is reliable. As is the Sig as its the primary for the Indian army. I would guess the M&P is solid. We could also through the Larue Predatar on the list as its in the ballpark weight wise and being used by some three letter agencies.
I agree with you on the KAC or at least I’m willing to presume it is reliable enough for its other advantages to outclass the scar . The rest, nah. Some agency buys and the Indian army (almost a negative…lol) just aren’t enough to convince me they are a match for the FN in reliability. Also, I note the closer they get in weight the less plausible they are.
But I would love to see testing data (I’m just thinking out loud, I doubt it’s available).
BUT! I think you have inspired me to buy a tread since I pretty much buy anything with a legit military connection for my collection.
There is a pretty good thread about the tred over at snipershide that sinister chimed in about. Worth a read if you would actually buy one.
Forgot to add the DD dd5v3 16" which seems like one I would buy.
I’ve looked at the DD a few times. It’s been out long enough I consider it as a shooter. Usually I won’t buy anything from SIG given their horrible track record over the last 15 or so years but for $1100 or so the tread seems to be worth having in the collection.
SR25 CC is very close in weight with similar barrel profile. The CC also has a longer, more functional rail.
The LMT MWS MLOK, 16” LW barrel is a bit heavier, but close enough and sufficiently light weight to be used as a battle rifle. Again, longer more functional rail than the SCAR.
The SCAR was a product of its time. The two post-9/11 wars were the first where the M4 saw widespread use as the standard issue rifle of both conventional and special operations forces. As we know, it revealed a lot of the problems and shortcomings of the rifle and the ammo. I remember that every gun blog, magazine, and TV show concluded that the AR design was obsolete and fundamentally flawed from top to bottom, and what we needed was to either go to either a new rifle in a bigger caliber like 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel, or back to the M14. I remember people thinking that even the 416 was likely a stopgap at best until the XM8 and/or SCAR got up and running. Then the XM8 got cancelled and the M4 got tweaked, improved, and upgraded, and suddenly it was an excellent rifle and a lot of the original complaints about it were solved. On top of that, the JSOC units loved their 416s. The SCAR hit the sandbox and proved to be decent, but not the one rifle to rule them all…especially at its price point. It’s biggest problem was that it offered very little that other rifles didn’t.
I should not be ignorant of this. What were these changes?
One of the major issues that Chris at Small Arms Solutions (and the latest volume of Black Rifles) outlines was improved QC. Simply put, barrel nut torque, subcomponent assembly, and extraction was all over the place. Minor improvements to those areas and better magazines helped solve most of these issues. Some rifles were being rebuilt with completely out-of-spec spare parts.
My biggest issue with my 17 is it’s accuracy. 3 MOA at best with excellent hand loads.
The charging handle didn’t bother me much until it nearly took my thumb off one day.
Not sure I’d pay $500 for a kit, but would at least consider.
That is interesting. The 17s has a rep of being accurate.
My 17 was 1.5 moa all day. Had a few .88 but those were rare.
None of mine, sample of 4, were better than 3.
Interesting, I’ve owned three. They are/were all exactly as the Monk states. They will occasionally print sub-MOA but will reliably print 1.5 or below with commercial ammo like GMM. I will say one thing the SCAR really benefits from is the Geisslie Trigger. The factory trigger is 80s style poop and was difficult for me to master. Accuracy has been a real sweet spot with the SCARs that I have owned and those owned by my shooting buddies.
All my triggers were stock. I shouldn’t have to drop in custom triggers to get performance from a rifle that was promoted as “one to rule them all.”
I could probably do 2 MOA if I bolted the rifle to a shooting bench, but that doesn’t really make it a 2 MOA rifle.
My sample is only one and agree vehemently about the trigger, that was the first thing I changed on my rifle, so mine has the G-Trigger installed. I think the only stock trigger worse was my Tavor, which also got a G-Trigger pack.
(This is coming from someone who can tolerate an HK91 trigger just fine.)
9 Hole Reviews shot a 0.9MOA group with FGMM175gr. I get about 1 MOA ish plus with my SCAR17. The system is decently accurate with good ammo. With M80 Ball I’ll get 6" spreads.