SCAR heavies question

General Firearms Other Semi-Automatic Rifles
1

Some friends and I are thinking of using two SCAR 7.62s with some serious optics to be our backbone. We figure good ammo availability, good enough accuracy when balanced with the semi-auto capability, and the longer reach of the 7.62 make it a good choice. There won’t be any CQB stuff with us, it will strictly be hiding and running if anything rolls our way (too many wives and little kids/infants), figure the SCARs could allow for greater standoff capacity, kind of a SDM role to break contact. Put out best shots on them, the rest of us carrying regular ARs to protect them/move everyone else.

I’d like your thoughts on the idea, and some recommendations on optics if you have any experience with them. I understand from some other threads that SCARs are pretty brutal on optics. Seems to be the only ones I’ve seen that are supposed to be able to survive are the NightForces and Leupolds. Anyway, not sure it’s a good idea/worth the cost.

2

I have no experience with a scar, but if they way as much as the LR-308 my brother has then I would say find something else. You won’t want to be running around carrying a heavy ass rifle. I’ve carried my brothers .308 through the Sandhills for about 7 miles one day… Not fun. I will admit though, he didn’t have a sling on it so that was a factor.

Other than the weight issue i see it as a good idea. If you can afford a scar you can afford to put a high quality optic on it.

3

The setup in the photo weighs 11lbs loaded. Not too far off from a loaded AR15 with optics, light and sling. I consider the small amount of extra weight on the SCAR to be justifiable considering the advantages it has for long range, penetration, etc. It’s a very lightweight package for a .308 battle rifle, particularly if you keep it with the stock rails.

Also, I’m curious as to what you see the role being for this gun. You seem to have a specific scenario in mind (no CQB but ranged engagement and “contact” at an unspecified range and terrain, as well as people to protect) What makes you think things will unfold the way you anticipate, and why?

4

Do you already have the SCARs? What range are we talking? If you don’t own the SCARs or the optics yet, you may be burning over $5K ($3000 rifle + $1700 scope + $325 trigger) per SCAR when your requirements only need Remington 700s and some less expensive scopes. The difference could be spent on ammo and training.

5

I’d rather have a LaRue PredatAR/PredatOBR or KAC ECC/K2 and a pile of Magpul mags for that role…

6

True. The SCAR 17 is more of a battle rifle than a Recce style rifle. Unless it is a MK20 the 17 is better suited in the role of a heavier caliber general purpose rifle. I say put an Aimpoint M4 2MOA Reticle on a 17 and call it good for most applications.

7

We all live in a major metro area, in nice neighborhoods, but not far from some not so nice areas. We all have, independently, come to the conclusion that the nation has used up a significant portion of its margin of error (but certainly not all of it). While none of us subscribe to the prepper philosophy of the end of the world, etc. we all have decided that we want to be able to leave the area if we want/need to (given that the more urban areas may become more and more dangerous). We’re all still in pretty good shape (some triathlon guys, some marathoners, etc.), but don’t pretend to being JSOC studs, so we’ll be keeping our head down, moving as fast as possible, and hoping everything settles down, but don’t want to rely on that. We plan on taking our families out at the first sign of trouble, but realize we’re not psychic.

We’re all civilian professionals (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc.) now, so we’ve got some ability to set aside some insurance, which is the way we view this sort of capability. And, let’s face it, we’re all tired of golf and shooting is a heck of a lot more fun and a more practical skill to teach kids, etc. We’ve just approached this like the life, health, auto, homeowners, etc. insurance we all carry for just as unlikely events (hopefully).

That’s the circumstances under which the guns would be used.

8

Thanks guys. I’ve got a friend who is a FN dealer, that’s why I was thinking SCARs (and the fact that a lot of front line units carry them), but the LaRue/KAC rifles may still be more cost effective. I’ll take a look at them.

9

I have used a mk17 and a mk20 and liked it so much that I went an bought a SCAR17S. Plus I feel that I need a personal copy of each issued weapon. Now understand that the SCAR has some issues which I think that now the civilian market is finally catching up to (Gissele, Handl, Vltor, PWS). For your particular situation I think a few things need to be thought about.

“Amateurs talk tactics professionals talk logistics” or “its not what your going to do its how you’re going to get it done”

We are just going to assume you will have a SCAR 17 not an OBR, LMT, SIG or HK417

This is rifle with a small logistical support chain compared to the AR-10. Which also that has a bit of notoriety for its behavior and durability from operational use. Do I think this is a huge issue? No, but you have to think about if the world breaks down and your gun breaks how do I fix a gun where parts are pretty limited compared to the AR platform. SOLUTION: Substantial spare parts kit if not an out right spare gun.

Also the SCAR uses proprietary magazines that are not as durable as say the SR25 or Pmag. From my personal experience they do not like being dropped. So buy a good number of them. I really like interoperability between platforms whenever possible. SOLUTION: buy a Handl Defense SR25 compatible lower, I have one, it works great. (do not worry about the overt slander of its competitors) It lets me put AR -10 mags in my SCAR

The power of 7.62x51 in such a light platform does a few things to the gun. It has a tendency work loose sight mounts and anything else not tightened down. I use an ADM QD setup on my gun and like it alot but it requires checking the QD levers from time to time.

With sustained rates of fire the lower 1913 rail assembly can get quite hot and there is a lack of rail space by comparison to AR platform is. Add to this it is difficult to find good lighting solutions with the stock configuration IMO. SOLUTION: aftermarket fore-rail assembly (I currently have a VLTOR but I am waiting for the Handl defense one that solves the heat issue)

I also have switched the charging handle out to an angled type as many of the sight mounts or wide based reflex sights will tear your hands up. EOTECH!

lastly the optics I prefer on this gun are variable power with red dot capacity. This gun can shoot man size targets over 600m. With your intended purpose for this gun you need an optic that can support that. Yet the gun is light enough and flexible enough that CQC type of work is absolutely doable. This advocates the use of a low magnification red dot. SOLUTION: Leupold Mk8 or Mk6, Vortex Viper PST HDII, Elcan 1.5x6 (I have the Vortex but after working with a mk6 I find it superior and the Mk8 is really nice but seriously expensive)

I hope this information helps you on your way.

10

SCAR 17 with an Elcan or ACOG. Don’t cut corners with optics for these. I loved mine and can tell you without a doubt that the SCAR platform is one of the most reliable rifles on the planet. Over 5,000 rds without a single hiccup. Not to mention that it was lightweight and nasty accurate. Modularity and balance are top notch. Why stop at the 17? Get some 16s’s as well.

11

Those scars are pretty cool :slight_smile:

12

I think for your given situation the scar would be perfect I just got mine less than a month ago and I can tell you it lives up to the hype. I shot an MOA or better group with a grip pod and a primary arms 1-4x24 that my brother gave me, granted it is sitting in a larue SPR mount that I painstakingly loctitied and leveled the junk scope into, I couldn’t believe how accurate it was. My brother who is a bolt gun fanboy was super impressed. (I may have converted him) Mags aren’t near as scarce as they use to be, hell there’s 3 sitting at a local gun shop for $40 each and they’ve been there nearly two months now. The mags people are saying are weak, I just dropped a fully loaded one the other day on a hardwood floor and it did nothing. Get some magpuls on the floor plates and that will sort that out. There are cheaper options out there but none will be field tested to the extent a scar has been…oh but you will need a sling because even with the light weight of the rifle mine feels a lot heavier then my AR…especially hand carrying it.

Are there other options out there that are cheaper? Yes.
Are they better? I wouldn’t go that far, lol.

13

I’m wondering if someone with some real world experience would be willing to chime in after reading the OP’s reasoning for wanting these rifles on his optic’s choice?

When I think of the situation he describes and all of the people in question having limited experience with firearms I am thinking that a magnified optic is not the best choice for the initial scenario where they are leaving the area in question.

Any thoughts?

14

Somebody already has…Rana chimed in earlier in the thread. I don’t think someone that is a “lawyer, doctor, or engineer” would have issue with a variable optic. Not trying to be a douche, but I was able to squeeze MOA out of the rifle my first time shooting it and my first time ever with a variable. I do have time behind multiple other systems but that rifle does a lot of the work for you…:stuck_out_tongue: and I would add to the OP that this site had a plethora of info on all subjects relating to his “scenario” ORANGE SEARCH BUTTON^^^

15

Leupold Mark 6 1-6X20 or SWFA SS 1-6x24 would fit the bill perfectly.

I have the SWFA on my 17 and I love it

16

Have a Leupold VX-6, a 1-6x w red dot on my SCAR 17.

Great combo. Took a few deer last year with it. Love the 1x while stalking and use the 6x for long shots or discriminating between a doe and possible button buck in low light.

I think the OP’s choice would be great. I also agree with those who stated a LaRue or KAC 308 w MagPul mags would be fine.

17

I’m as excited as the next guy about these K2 series guns, but there only seem to be a couple of prototype guns in house at KAC. Also if the barrels on these K2s are truely lightweight and chrome lined, do you really think that they be night and day more accurate than the SCAR 17? And at the current price of ~$6k for an ECC? You gotta be kidding me. It’s almost as though KAC is testing the waters to find the absolute limit of what the market will bear. For that price, I’ll buy two SCAR 17s and a stack of mags (that arn’t plastic) they can both use.

At 1-1.5 MOA, the SCAR is a darn accurate rifle. I’d like to see what those Sage EBR M14s were turning in the accuracy wise. I think that folks on this site that are splitting hairs between platforms on the basis of ~.5 MOA are really kidding themselves. All of the discussed rifles will shoot circles around off the rack hunting rifles that have been putting meat in the freezer for years.

The LaRue OBR guns may be more accurate than all the above, but IMHO, they fall into more of the precision catagory. I havn’t read anything that would suggest that the PredatAR guns are significantly more accurate than the SCAR. I have seen posts that would seem to sugest that the LaRue guns don’t function as reliably as the SCAR. Kind of two different purpous built platforms.

18

I’m running a Leupold VX-R patrol 1.25-4x20 on my SCAR 17 and I love it! Best scope out there for under $500(if you lok hard) in my book. Make sure you get the PATROL model though.

19

I have settled on the Bomb proof ACOG for mine

20

I have owned several different AR variants both DI & Piston rigs. I have a Hogan H-308 (think POF) and love it. An opportunity presented itself to me to pick up a new SCAR 17S for just under $3k.

I am probably gonna sell the Hogan and just run my SCAR. It’s light weight and accurate and sounds perfect for what you describe what you may use it for. I bought the Calvary Manufacturing lower as I already had a bunch of SR-25 PMAGS. I also swapped out the trigger for the Geissele SS and the safety selectors out for Empire Tactical “Thor” selectors.

I LOVE THIS THING! I’m gonna try it out elk hunting this fall if I get the chance. If you have the money, get the Vortex Razor 1-6 with an AD mount and call it a day. I would always recommend purchasing some extra parts. I don’t like to gamble. Get a can for it as well if you have the cash.