There’s a good thread going over in the AR general discussion about fixed or flip up irons, and I wanted to carry it over to this section and talk about it specifically in relation to SBR’s.
We all know the pro’s and cons about fixed or flip up irons, but I feel when relating that decision specifically to SBR’s that maybe people would have a different opinion. I say this because for many people rail space is important, not for necessarily hanging junk on your rifle, but more so as it relates to me is the placement of the support arm.
I am not a tiny guy for my frame, at 5’10 230 lbs, and more rail space allows me to “stretch out” if you will for grip with my support arm, this was one of the things that instantly drew me to the mid length rifle when I was first introduced to one, as with still running a fixed front sight, you could run a 9" rail VS the standard 7".
So I wanted to get feedback on those more experienced than I on why they chose to go one route or the other on their SBR’s. Do you also maybe run a fixed on your standard size rig and flip up BUIS on the SBR?
Just looking for some input here as to what becomes priority on the shorty, comfort and more rail, or less comfort and a more rugged front end?
A friend I was speaking with briefly about this also brought something up to me that I had not really given any thought to myself, he said to counteract a short rail (7") on the SBR or any “carbine” for that matter, you can always just extend your butt stock further out to move the rifle further forward as it relates to position with your body.
So let’s try to forget about “cool” for a minute and discuss form and function as it relates to SBR’s, this topic is of great interest to me as I’m in the midst of an SBR build as I await my stamp.
I too thought about this when picking parts for my SBR. On my 14.5 and 16" guns I have 13" handguards. I chose to go that route not only for hand placement but for barrel coverage. I didn’t see any need to leave excess barrel hangin out there, and I utilize that extra handguard on barracades and when shooting on the bench. I toyed with hand placement, and while the outstretched hand/arm on the 13" rail works fine, I often found that I would instinctively return to a closer hand position. I ended up with a vert grip on the 13" rail as a handstop, but not as far out as alot of the cool kids do these days. I use the DD fixed front sight because it doesn’t bother me and seems to dissapear with a scope, so if I don’t need the flip up front sight I’ll utilize the simpler, cheaper and tougher fixed.
With the 11.5" barrel on the SBR I choose to go with the old school cap and ring setup and run a GI handguard or MOE. As i have found that support hand position isn’t as critical for me as it is for some, I am just fine with the shorter guards along with a MOE vert grip. They may not be in style any more, but who gives a rip they work for me. I went with the fixed front sight because I wanted a gun that I could toss around and not have to worry about something getting knocked loose.
This is a Centurion Arms 10.5" upper. The FSB is stock and the light is attached via a Gear Sector mount. I have not gotten a chance to shoot this one yet. The upper is a loaner.
This is an AAC 300 BLK upper. The rail is a KAC (8"?), the barrel is a 9"? and the front sight is a Troy. The extremely short sight radius is a hinderance but it’s all I could do given the limits of the rail and the location I wanted for the light. Another loaner.
This is a Colt 6933 with MOE furniture. This is a personal gun. While I’m not shooting that way in the pic, I now find myself shooting with the stock extended further as you describe. If I had no loaner guns tomorrow this is the gun I would shoot 90% of the time. I attach an X300 to the FSB mount by Midwest Industries.
Thanks for the feedback brother, my current 14.5" middy is wearing a 13" VTAC rail as well, like you said to not have so much exposed barrel, but also for hand placement. I am considering picking up a DD fixed front to see how I like it, running Troy BUIS front & rear at the moment.
As for the SBR, well I already stated where I’m at, considering what you stated with the FSP to not worry about it getting tossed around, but playing devil’s advocate what makes that any different than the 14.5 or 16 getting tossed around? :suicide2:
Ok Rob, thanks for adding to the confusion, lol :lol:
You and I have been back and forth a bit on the switch block thing, but I am trying to use a Rob approach and start from scratch with where my head was at and look at things from a more realistic stand point, the TYV way.
Is that a kino upper in the first pic?
Anyhow, of the three setups which do you prefer, does adding a suppressor make any difference in your preference?
The SBR is my car gun and travels with me. Usually crammed between seats, floor board, or in the trunk. The only “protection” it ever sees is a tennis raquet bag from time to time. The other guns are for sure tough enough, but it gives me peace of mind that the gun that I would most likely use in a bad situation probably hasn’t had the screws on some fancy rail or front sight come loose. I really wouldn’t mind re-building it on a A1 style upper some day soon and really make it bomb proof.
I and another guy asked this in the other rear/front sight thread, but I honestly didn’t quite understand the answer given…
How do the DD fixed FS fare? How sturdy and durable are they compared to say a standard FS? Would you be worried about them being bumped around?
I plan to put those on a MK18 build with folding rear so that I would be able to fit NODs behind an Aimpoint since I’m guessing a fixed rear wouldn’t work in that setup(?)
Also, that is an interesting idea about extending your stock to make your rail “longer”, but I like to shoot NTCH (regardless of body position if possible) to make sure my cheek weld is consistent…other than that, pretty good idea.
I don’t know on the DD fixed front, I might pick one up for my current 14.5" middy before putting the upper for sale and see how it works out.
As for the idea of the stock, it came up in conversation between a buddy and me, and today I was fiddling with it on my middy. I marked off where a 7" hand guard would end on my 13" rail and grabbed it there after moving my VFG back. 2 clicks out on my ACS stock and my support arm was in the same position I find comfortable on my bigger rifle.
I will be hitting the range again soon and will give this a try, if it works out I might be going fixed front sight and folding rear for both setups.
FWIW, I think there’s something to be said for having two guns with similar, or as identical as they can be, setups. I started with that idea with my first Colts.
Function and form were important to me with an SBR, as the form (how I can hold the carbine) actually can influence function (ease of making hits) so I wanted as long of a rail as possible with as short of a barrel as possible, as like the OP I am 5’11" and 230lbs. So I have a 10.5" LMT barrel with a 10" Daniel Defense Lite rail. I have the FSP removed and installed a Troy flip up BUIS. I think that the simple fact is that modern optics are so reliable that I really don’t see the necessity of fixed front sights. The idea that you would be in the middle of a fight and your optics dies (possible yes, but highly improbable) and that you would be in such a time is life scenario that you would have time to flip up a sight. I would argue if they are that close then I would keep shooting using the RDS as a ghost ring…
I chose flip BUIS on my SBR as I also chose a couple of very robust red dots, Aimpoint Micro and EOTech XPS in more than 10,000 rounds over 7 different ARs and many years of shooting I have yet to have ANY RDS die while shooting, not to deny that it could happen, that’s why I do have quality flip up BUIS on every AR I own, but it is very very unlikely.
So for my SBR form and function are most important, the full length rail protects the barrel and gas block, and a simply flip BUIS is available if needed.
SBR 10.5" barrel and 10" rail
Having a FSP at 7-8" would certainly change they way I shot, as I am hanging on all the way out at 10"
Another option would be a 12.5" in a Kino configuration. One of my friends runs a 12.5" BCM with a 9" DD lite rail. The gas block is low-pro under the rail system but there is still a pinned FSB in front of the rail system (obviously not attached to the gas system). Anywho, I like the setup. So, the barrel sticks out from the FSB at the around the same length as a 10.3".
He did make the mistake of not buying the G5 mount for a 10.3" and ended up having to take some metal off the front of his bayonet lug to properly mount his suppressor (but who puts a bayo on an SBR?)
Ignoring the switchblock/suppressor issue and with regards to your other ongoing thread, somethin like this on a kino might be interesting. And if you did have a SB it would be super-easy to notch.
This is one of the reasons I like the URX rails. I don’t run with my BUIS flipped up all the time as the T1 makes a pretty good ghost ring. Because the extra couple inches of rail space isn’t eaten up by a front sight, I can get my hand just that little bit further out. With the spring-loaded flip-up of my LW URX if I need to deploy the front it’s just a button push.
Caveat, I don’t do cool shit with my guns, just square range and training on said range.
6920-DD Lite 12.5 FSP
6933-DD Lite 9.5 FSP
I want to keep the FSP so the 12.5 on the 6920 gives me real estate in front of the FSP. The 6933 has about an inch of rail on the sides and bottom past the FSB. I don’t see a need, for me, to grip the 6920 past the FSP. Couldn’t on the 6933 and don’t feel the need to. The factory FSP is an excellent sight. I see no reason, for me, to move to something else. Both setups feel “comfortable.”
