Thanks for the reply bud. I’ve shot the AR a lot, but yes you are correct in me being ‘new’ as you put it. The only reason I mentioned cutting the barrel so much is after doing a little bit of research on the internet (as I said in my first post) it appears the general consensus is for the price the 6920 is a hard rifle to beat… and most of the ones I read about people have cut the barrel down to 14.5 and pinned. I would prefer to have the shortest package possible… preference, I do understand the performance limitations and like I said I’m not worried about it. When I do an accurate rifle I’ll pay more attention to those details. I’m looking for a good personal defense rifle, and would like something in a smaller more maneuverable package. I am also under the impression that cutting a barrel down would be the cheaper alternative to getting a new barrel and having that put on the rifle. I was also doing some reading about gas ports not needing to be resized if the barrel has been cut.
Some questions… why go with BCM’s 14.5 barrels as opposed to other companies such as Noveske? They seem to be renowned for quality of barrels and I have seen many swear by them. For a 14.5 barrel would I have to run a carbine length gas system if I put a 12’’ rail on the rifle? Or would I be able to run a mid-length? I didn’t really mean put the rifle together piece by piece, but would it be better to buy a complete rifle as opposed to different upper and lower receiver’s? And is there any need to take a look at the .300blk for the 14.5 barrel?
Your best bet at this point is to just buy a complete upper that comes to 16" with your choice of mounts for the can you want to use.
It is cheaper unless you already have all the tools needed (vice big enough to handle the barrel install, torque wrench, upper clamshell block,all the small tools and any special tools for your rail), and then when you get to an SBR friendly state, decide if you want to cut the barrel or get an new upper/barrel.
As for which company to buy from, that is up to you, and what options you want. I have a LWRCi piston upper, and 2 Noveske uppers right now. When I get around to SBRing my 6920, I’m going to source a factory Colt 14.5 barrel to make an all Colt M4gery, as I have all the tools to do a barrel swap.
BCM is a great choice, if they offer you what you are looking for. I just built a lightweight gun using their 16" upper.
If you want a Switchblock function, go with Noveske.
Rainier Arms is another good choice,
But the big thing is to make sure you know what materials are being used, an that the company has a great reputation.
As for buying a complete gun, seperate upper and lower, or stripped lowers, you generally don’t save any money going the complete upper/lower route. If you can get a good deal on a stripped lower, and the shipping and transfer fees are reasonable (if ordered online), you can save a little, as you avoid paying the FET tax on the lower as a complete firearm.
But you really have to get a good deal on shipping and the transfer fee to make it work…
This was a really helpful post for understanding what you’re after. You covered a lot of ground in your questions and the best thing I can say is you should spend a few late nights perusing the stickies and old posts, and eventually you’ll get the answers you’re looking for and then some. Some quick humble opinions from me, though:
Yep, general consensus that a 6920 is where it’s at. I don’t know of many people cutting them down to 14.5 though. There are, however, factory-built 14.5 options that are on par with the 6920 so you wouldn’t need to cut anything (cutting a barrel costs good money). BCM, LMT, Noveske, and Rainier are the ones I’d spend time on, although I’m sure there are others. Some can be had with flash hiders perm’d from the factory… some you’d need to have a shop pin for you.
Copy that. I can’t argue your desires so if SBR and suppressor meets that need then rock on. I started down the SBR path then realized a suppressor (for me) is more valuable as a first/only NFA item, but then stopped both when I started to wonder if I wanted to get on another government “list”. Personally, for your stated purpose, I think jumping to SBR w/ suppressor right out the gates is more trouble then you really want… and really expensive. I’d rather commit less money to getting functionally armed earlier with a normal 14.5 (pinned) or 16.
Almost certainly not… at least for the type of specs that I’d be interested in (which are admittedly very boring, very utilitarian specs). You’re probably best off getting a factory 14.5… or 12.5… or 11.5… etc. I can’t speak to the gas port thing, I have no knowledge in that regard.
No reason I picked BCM in my earlier post other than I happen to know they offer pinned flash hiders on 14.5 barrels as on option on their website, and I happen to like them. My “ranch rifle” is a BCM 14.5 midlength with a pinned FH and my wife’s is a BCM 16 SS midlength. I’ve also had Bushmaster (ugh) and White Oak. Noveske certainly seems awesome, but I’m not a good enough shooter to make the extra cost worth it to me. But if you end up picking Noveske I will be slightly jealous of you.
I assume you mean a 12" rail or tube that runs over a low profile gas block. If so, then carbine or midlength will both work. The 12" rail will cover both. If that’s not what you mean then PM me because no one will want to see this thread bogged down even more.
Well you could put it together piece by piece if you wanted! I personally don’t find that gratifying (although only done it once) but some do. But complete versus upper/lower… flip a coin. Both of my current rifles are lowers I assembled topped with factory uppers. I liked spreading the cost out. Others like manufacturer warranty/support. Sometimes you can save money by separating… sometimes it’s cheaper and easier to buy complete. Sorta up to you.
Is there a need to look at 300 BLK? Yes. Although I’m not sure what you mean by “for the 14.5 barrel”. I recently started salivating over 300 BLK and my dad just bought one (the bastard). I’m intrigued and want to give it a try. That said, I think I’d rather have a solid 5.56 as my first/only go-to carbine. Then just buy a 300 BLK upper later for the range or hunting.
These are my opinions only. I am NOT an expert, or an armorer, or an industry professional, and my advice may be worth only what you paid for it. Feel free to PM me when you get to Fairchild. I live across the border but visit Spokane from time to time, and there’s a range in Mica where you could show me whatever AR you eventually got yourself. Cheers.
One thing about the 300BLK is that there is not a lot of commercial loads for it, and unless you want to get into reloading, you will most likely have to order ammo on-line. I have not seen any factor ammo on the shelves for sale yet, but I haven’t looked much. I can say that most smaller gun stores will probably only carry a limited amount of it at a time, if at all, and forget getting it at Wally World.
It is a great performing round, from all reports, but it’s still a niche round.
I’d stick with a 5.56 for your first, get your feet wet in regards to what you want, get familiar with the weapon, and then look at going 300blk…
5.56 is not really expensive, and is still quite plentyful, and affordable. And the weight choices are pretty broad, so you can buy some different loads and figure out what works beast for your gun/wallet combo…
I feel like Colt would be the more expensive route, and unless I went with the 6920 I would probably try to go for BCM or ST. I have emailed the folks over at BCM and they informed me they are back logged pretty badly right now. They said they also couldn’t do anything custom and I would have to go off of what they currently have. Basics of what I am now looking at are:
-An AR15 with 14.5’’ barrel and pinned FH. I am thinking about going with Surefire for this… Unless you guys have a better recommendation on Can manufacturers. It sounds to me after reading that no other Can will allow you to maintain the same (or close to the same) Zero as Surefire.
-Mid-length gas system for reliability. The question about the gas system’s had nothing to do with the type of rail I want to run. I in my lack of knowledge did not know if a mid length gas system could be run on a 14.5’’ M4 profile barrel.
-DD 12’’ RIS II
-Still up in the air for the stock, but I am considering the SOPMOD, the VLTOR MOD, and the TI-7. Any recommendations? I know it will fall to my preference… each of the stocks are very similar in design… range in price I don’t know how they compare to each other.
-For the barrel I have been thinking about 1:8 twist for a while. Out of the 14.5 am I going to have a real advantage over the 1:7 in stabilizing heavier rounds?
Do you guys have any other recommended accessories for the receiver group that I should take a look at.
For my statements about the 300blk. I understand this round was designed to be shot from shorter barreled rifles. The short casings and less powder will completely burn by the time it exacts a barrel… an issue the .223 apparently has. Since the optimal barrel for the 300 blk is 8.5-9’’ in a 14.5-16’’ barrel will there be a decrease in pressure and drop in velocity? As a defense rifle I don’t feel like I need to reach out and touch someone and I know that I’ll be good out to 300m and more… ballistically I just don’t know if it would suit my needs better than .223 will out of a 14.5… please correct my lack of ballistic understanding =P
You guys have really got me thinking about BCM haha. I would probably go with them if I can do what I want easily. Would buying an upper and a lower from BCM be about the same as buying a complete rifle from them? The only reason I’m being that difficult is when it comes to installing things like rails and stocks. They don’t offer anything with the RIS II on it… so I’d have to throw that on myself. Do you guys not recommend someone like me doing so? I’d prefer to learn and save money on a smith (even though it’d cost me in tools) But if I had the tools and learned what I need to do it would save me money on future projects.
The loophole you are looking for is a 1-way ticket out of WA. Either move, or accept the limitations of the situation you are in.
That said, I think you would be happy with a 14.5" pinned rifle. Here is mine:
I have since made these decisions:
T1 2 MOA micro over M4S
LaRue index clips
M600C over M300A
Bought a 10.5" upper and went the SBR route (not an option for you right now, and the 14.5" is PLENTY! serviceable).
No, the 300 AAC Blackout continues to build velocity until about 18-20", from what I understand, although it isn’t much of an increase, it will not be counter-productive solely on that front.
The 300AAC works best 200 yards and in IMO due to its lower velocity. It will work out to 300 yards, though, but much further than that and you are correcting for drop a good bit and you better be good at ranging.
Go with the 1/7 twist. It will allow you to see if 70gr TSX works well in your weapon, etc. and a little extra insurance through a suppressor is always nice. That will allow for 2 full rotations of the bullet in the barrel.
For starters. And be sure to look several pages back. The stickies are also there for a reason. Anything you don’t know, use the search button, and if that doesn’t answer your quesition, then ask.
When you want to delve into some of the finer points, terminal ballistics is good and the lights and optics sections have some good stuff.
As for your desired choice for an upper, any reason you are set on the DD RIS II?
Mate this upper with a CH, BCG, BUIS, and a lower of your chice and you are in business. Not sure if Grant has BCM blem lowers still in stock, but those would be a good choice.
I would also go with 1/7 barrel.
Also, do you have any budget for your build? It may help guide some of the suggestions people provide.
If price were no option, I would say one of the new KAC 14.5s
The DD RIS IIs are the block 2 M4 rails… Main reason I’m going with them. I don’t have a budget for it, but I am a young married guy so all I want is a good reliable AR that I don’t have to worth about functioning. I’d rather use the extra cash I’d spend on a high-end rifle (if I may) for optics lights an combat related equipment.
Just because the RIS II is used on the Block II SOPMODs does not mean it is the only choice. There are lots of other rails out there, of similar quality, that do the same thing as the RIS II, which is free float the barrel and allow you to mount a light, VFG, and whatever other stuff you may want to put on your rifle.
Best thing I can say is do as much reading on here as you can and visit various manufacture websites and online retailers to understand all of the choices that you have. After that, the decision on what to buy is up to you.
True, but in the same respect won’t they all be functionally the same?
I’ve been researching rails and doing a lot of reading and I don’t see a reason not to use the RIS II.
True. The point I was trying to make is not to pass up what would otherwise be an excellent rifle/upper receiver group just because it doesn’t have an RIS II. However, if you have the time to wait until what you want becomes available, drive on.
My main reason not to use the RIS II would be that it costs x2 other options that are in fact functionally the same. If it’s simply the one you want then I would not begrudge your decision to spend that money. But as a young married guy earning E-2 pay (or even O-1 if you’re coming out of OTS), I’d submit that the nearly $400 for the RIS II is better spent elsewhere. Ask yourself what you really need. I’m guessing that ability to mount an M-203 is NOT it.
I think you’re still thinking too hard. Just buy a plain carbine such as a Colt 6920 or BCM 16" midlength, which I know are both in stock right now if you look for them. Don’t overthink the extra 1.5" of barrel, save your upgrade money, and then you’re equipped with a great rifle NOW instead of your dream rifle LATER.
Ya E-3 pay isn’t much, but I’ll be getting a sweet bonus for my job so I’m not that worried about it. I’ll be able to get a military discount on a lot of the products anyway… That’ll save me a tiny bit.
Well due to some unforeseen changes… It turns out I will not be going to WA and don’t need to worry about those laws.
I feel the SBR will suit all of the needs/wants I am looking for in a rifle. I realize that their will be a learning curve with the feedback I will receive from the rifle in comparison to a longer barrel but that’s why one trains with what one uses. Is there any real reason for me not to own an SBR?
I wish I started buying SBR’s sooner. Besides some Retro guns I don’t really want anything but SBR AR’s anymore.
The restrictions on movement with NFA weapons is a bit if a PITA. Being on active duty may present some issues from you but if you plan well you’ll be fine.
