I have been looking to get me a Sig p220 Carry or a SAO p220
I have never carried a SAO can anyone with some back ground with this give me some input?.would this be a good choice for a carry weapon?thanks
I am not a proponent of SA, locked and cocked carry a la 1911 style pistols with which one could lump the P220SAO. There are many here who favor that carry system, Many of them also think it is okay to carry in bars and have a beer or two, go figure. Under stress, when your pucker factor is way up and your fine motor skills have left town, simpler is better. Under these circumstances I don’t even like de-cockers like the DA/SA P220 Carry. If you really want a P220 as a DEFENSIVE carry pistol then I would recommend a SIG P220DAK or a DAO. If you want it as a range gun or a target gun, then get the SAO. If you are very comfortable with the SIG DA/SA system and the use of their de-cocker then go ahead and get the Carry model.
I’m a big fan of SA cocked and locked carry and I don’t think you should mix booze and firearms. That’s the fucking stupidest shit I’ve read in a while :rolleyes:
Its another step before you squeze the trigger not fucking rocket science. Its easier to learn the trigger…and its easier to shoot well if you do not have allot of time/money/experience with handguns and for ammunition. Its also personal… go shoot one and decide for you.
I recently purchased a SIG 220 SAO.
I have been a 1911 guy for a while, so the manual of arms is familiar. For folks worried about carrying cocked & locked (?), the safety is very positive and on the stiff side.
I have not finished trials before carrying, but first outing it functioned perfectly through about 300 rounds. My gut says this one is gong to be a keeper and a favorite.
The one hiccup I had was intermittent failure to lock back. On reflection, it was my fault. I shoot 1911’s with thumb over the thumb safety. Doing this with the 220 results in light contact with the slide release. This contact was just enough to hamper the engagement of the slide release.
My 220 has the external extractor, which is relatively new for this model. There were some 220’s in recent years with internal extractors that gave problems, likely from a metal tempering issue. The forum dedicated to SIGs has some reports about this issue, which had been intermittent. Given the choice, which I did have, I opted for the external.
Presently there are no alternative grip panels for the SAO. Hogue may bring some out someday (sigh).
The grip is what I’d call medium large, so I strongly recommend anyone considering one, handle one first.
Warren makes rear sights that fit this model. Although the factory sights are good.
I have not owned a SIG since the 90’s, although I have always had an affinity for them. The whole DA/SA transition thing gave me problems, although in fairness I believe it is a training thing. But this 220 SAO is a very nice package.
That seems to be questionable analogical inference IMHO.
As always, you need to handle (and hopefully test fire) the weapon before you buy it. I’ve fondled the 220 SAO and found it wasn’t suited to , even without an opportunity to shoot it. When I dropped the safety, the edge of the safety trapped a piece of my thumb between the safety and the slide release. It happened consistently and was only stopped when I changed my grip on the weapon. It’s not really a big deal in the cosmic scheme of things, but it was a distraction and I know the SAO would not be the first weapon I’d want to train with, which would have relegated it to safe queen status had I bought it sight unseen.
You may not have the same issue due to your grip or hand size, or it might not bother you at all even if it occurs. It’s just something you might want to take into consideration.
The issue here is that with a SAO gun, the proper way to grip the pistol is with your thumb riding the safety. If you habituate your grip so that you are always on top of the safety as you shoot, you dramatically decrease the odds of (a) forgetting to disengage the safety and (b) inadvertently activating the safety during the firing cycle.
I was never a fan of the SAO SIGs because the safety lever blocked my ability to reach the slide release lever.
Hello,
I’ve owned many different makes & models of pistols down thru the years, and cannot understand why anyone, when given a choice, would choose any manual of arms over a single-action automatic.
In fact, I’ve sold all my pistols that were Not single-action only, in order to aquire more single-action automatics.
The M1911 & The Browning High Power are Totally Safe when carried in Condition One, and I’d imagine that the single-action Sig is as well.
There are photos of a cut-away 1911 in the following link that shows how the safety totally blocks the sear, and the safety also blocks the sear in a very simular fashion on The Browning High Power.
Here’s the link to the photos.
http://photos1.blogger.com/photoInclude/blogger/2157/1620/1600/1911gripsafetyjohnholbrook.jpg
What a stupid statement. If you think that DAO or TDA guns are the cats ass for carry than state your reasons why you think so. Your put down of serious people who carry SAO guns is uncalled for on a board filled with serious minded shooters.
The fact of the matter is that the startle response can easily overcome any DAO system. The idea that a DA system affords you some sort of protection over a SA is misguided. If you have your finger on the trigger and you get startled chances are the gun is going to go bang regardless of the trigger mechanism. There is a fairly famous case from several years ago when a member of the NYPD accidentally killed a teenager on the roof of a housing project when he opened a door to a stairway not expecting a kid to be there. The NYPD carries G19’s with the NY trigger spring. It made no difference.
WTF does carrying cocked and locked and boozing while carrying have to do with one and other? That is the stupidest and most ignorant shit I have seen on this board in ages.
Actually, the argument that a long, heavy trigger affords no protection over a short, light trigger is what’s misguided. The claim always falls back on the startle response thing. But it’s worth remembering that:
[ul]
[li]Before they switched to Glocks, the FBI actually taught as part of their firearms instructor program that it was trigger pull length rather than weight which played the biggest role in preventing accidents from “startle.” The reason is obvious … the more time your brain has to receive feedback that the trigger is being pulled, the less chance you’ll finish with the trigger stroke. A trigger that goes from zero to fire in a tenth of an inch provides its first feedback by way of a very, very loud noise.
[/li]
[li]There are plenty of accidents which occur besides the ones caused by a startle response. Again, longer and/or heavier trigger pulls give you more time to receive and respond to tactile feedback.
[/li]
[li]From a simple physics standpoint, it takes more movement to AD a longer trigger pull. It takes more pressure to AD a heavier trigger pull. You cannot argue that. So if someone accidentally moves a trigger a quarter of an inch, whether or not the gun goes off is determined by whether the trigger fires after a quarter inch of movement, period. If someone puts six pounds of force on a trigger, whether or not the gun goes off is determined by whether the trigger fires after six pounds of pressure, period.
[/li]
[li]Claims that “it’s all about the shooter” or “my finger/brain is my safety” are all well and good, but even the best trained and most professional people make mistakes. Ever hear of pilot error? The average commercial passenger jet pilot gets literally a hundred times more training on how to operate his plane than the average cop gets on how to operate his pistol. Yet those highly-skilled pilots still sometimes make mistakes. That’s why airplanes have all sorts of redundant safety systems.
[/li][/ul]
I’m not saying an SAO gun is bad. Plenty of competent folks choose them. But let’s not pretend that fundamental physics ceases to apply just because you’ve got a 1911 in your hand.
Oh my God, I’m NEO!!!
Be interesting to rig a test pistol up with a pressure/travel sensor and see in various scenarios what the distance and pressure exterted is.
I just want something to stop the trigger from moving until I want it to move. Plus in reholstering in a more general sense, I like a hammer I can keep from moving rather than trying to hold onto with my finger nails those iddy, bitty little striker indicators 
.
Decoded- You carry 1911s and M&Ps, right?
You must be so proud …
Classy…
FMCDH: Yeah, I carry an M&P9C or a 5" 1911 clothing dependent.
At least I didn’t post the one of him lip-locked with another dude …
And yet they switched to Glocks and 1911’s. I wonder what that says about the prevailing wisdom within the FBI? After all why would a risk adverse federal agency, like the FBI, open themselves up to potential lawsuits by switching to a gun with a much shorter trigger pull if they still felt that it was more likely to cause an AD/ND?
There are plenty of accidents which occur besides the ones caused by a startle response. Again, longer and/or heavier trigger pulls give you more time to receive and respond to tactile feedback.
That’s nice, I was addressing a specific point made by the original poster, even then I am sure that we can come up with dozens of cases of negligent discharges/accidental discharges at agencies using DAO/TDA/LEM/DAK. So what does that prove other than you can have an accident with any type of gun?
From a simple physics standpoint, it takes more movement to AD a longer trigger pull. It takes more pressure to AD a heavier trigger pull. You cannot argue that. So if someone accidentally moves a trigger a quarter of an inch, whether or not the gun goes off is determined by whether the trigger fires after a quarter inch of movement, period. If someone puts six pounds of force on a trigger, whether or not the gun goes off is determined by whether the trigger fires after six pounds of pressure, period.
My point was that is you are startled suffciently you will have an ND if your finger is on the trigger. I think I can name enough examples of LEO who had AD’s/ND’s using those types of trigger systems in stressful to disprove the original posters proposition that they prevent accidents under stress. I’ll concede that there are some instances where it might prevent an negligent discharge but I will not concede that carrying a SAO firearm is akin to carrying in a bar.
Claims that “it’s all about the shooter” or “my finger/brain is my safety” are all well and good, but even the best trained and most professional people make mistakes. Ever hear of pilot error? The average commercial passenger jet pilot gets literally a hundred times more training on how to operate his plane than the average cop gets on how to operate his pistol. Yet those highly-skilled pilots still sometimes make mistakes. That’s why airplanes have all sorts of redundant safety systems.
I don’t recall ever claiming that it is all about the shooter or that my finger/brain was my safety and don’t know why you felt compelled to bring it up as if I had. Every gun (1911, P35, H&K, CZ 75/85, etc) that I can think of that can be carried cocked and locked has a manual safety of some sort that must be actively disengaged before firing. The only exception to that is the XD which is technically a SAO gun but is, for all intents and purposes, the same as the DAO Glock.
It seems to me that a 1911, for example, has more “redundant safeties” standing between an AD than say a Sig DAK or H&K LEM. So I an not really sure I agree with your general proposition that a longer trigger pull without a manual safety is safer than a single action firearm with a manual safety. In fact I can make the argument that that a SAO gun is much safer before the deactivation of the safety and the DAO is somewhat safer after. What does that prove?
I’m not saying an SAO gun is bad. Plenty of competent folks choose them. But let’s not pretend that fundamental physics ceases to apply just because you’ve got a 1911 in your hand.
Let’s also not pretend that the DAO is the cure all for poor gun handling. As you point out there are plenty of competent people who carry SAO guns safely.
WTF?!?!
Thanks for all the replies ,Although I do not drink so I guess I would not fall in the " carry a weapon into a bar and get drunk "group.
I have carried a G30,XD-45 and a number of sig’s.Just looking for something new.I Have not been able to find a range around me that has any SAO I can fire .so I am hitting the Gun store this weekend to see what they have …thank you for your input:D
I’ve had a SAO Carry for about 2 years. At about the 300 round mark, it started to lock back on the last round in the magazine, any magazine. The same mags worked fine in my DA/SA 220. Anyway, I got SIG to take it back and they replaced the internal extractor, in addition to polishing the ramp.
Haven’t had problems since. Grip fits my big hands well. Recoil seems less than with a 1911 or my 4.4" DA/SA 220. Accuracy is typical SIG. What I really like is the ability to engage the safety while racking the slide while loading and unloading.
Do I carry it a lot? Not really because I have others I’m more comfortable carrying, LWC, G27 and M&P40. I actually prefer to carry the DA/SA 220 or 226 because I can unholster and get them into action faster. The stiff safety and shape/position of the safety seem to slow me down rather than be neutral or help my speed.
I’ve actually been playing with the idea of sending it back to SIG and getting it swithched to DA/SA or DAK, but at $200.00+…