Safety issue: stuck, live rounds

AR/M4 AR Technical Discussion
1

Guys, should you ever run across a live round stuck in the chamber, that won’t come out no-way, no-how, approach with caution. When it seems like the only option is to hammer it out with a rod, consider this:

I have one first-hand story, and another story I consider credible, of rounds detonating as a result of this practice, resulting in death. In the first, a benchrest shooter had a tight round that would not chamber. He removed the bolt and began tapping the cartridge out with a rod, his wife holding the rifle at the back. The round fired and she was killed by the case.

Today I had an AR come in (5.56) with a 5.45X39 round solidly wedged into the chamber. I had actually stated in an article that I didn’t think this would be too big of a deal, but it was really, really in there. I had to make a special tool and pull it out with a slide hammer.

Point is, they had tried to rod it out and hammered it all so hard the the bullet naturally telescoped into the case, and the tapped hole in the end of the rod then telescoped over the bullet, splitting the rod. That was some serious hammering. Not too much of a stretch to picture the powder getting so compacted that it would set off the primer. These guys had put some Liquid Wrench in there, which I though was a logical thing to try. I wonder if that might just have kept somebody off the operating table or marble slab by killing the primer/powder.

Long story short, yes, I have tapped out a few stuck, loaded rounds from AR15’s. But I do it gingerly, with the ejection port down, nobody in line with either end of the barrel, glasses on, and preferably with a piece of body armor over the receiver. If I ever have one that doesn’t come out with a few gentle taps, and nothing else works, I think I’ll just bury it.

2

I saw the trick recently posted about zip tying a cleaning rod to your rail, and thought yours was a very important companion post. I’ve had stuck rounds for various reasons, most recently from oversized necks on factory loads. On the very rare occasion I haven’t been able to extract any other way, I prefer to mortar it before shoving a rod down there.

3

Yes, this is referring to something stuck way beyond mortar clearable.

I have to think there are many variables. Let’s take the benchrester whose wife was killed. No doubt it was a fine ball powder. No doubt the flash hole had been trued and deburred where it entered the case interior and so was maybe just a tad bigger. Maybe those factors made it easier for the powder to essentially flow hydraulically to the primer.

Now this rifle yesterday, again a fine ball powder (Russian surplus 5.45), but Berdan primed-- two small holes, making it harder for powder to be forced through them. I imagine a stick powder would be even less easily coaxed into this. On the other hand if you take any of these powders and squeeze a granule or two in pliers or something you’ll see they are the consistency of soft plastic.

Bottom line, although I have not actually seen it happen, I consider the stories credible and would not bet my face or transverse colon on it not happening.

4

Ned,
after they guys were beating on that thing they gave it to me,

I soaked the hell out of it in LW then vised it and tried a few times with a different rod No go after that i said it need to go to need,

Casey filled me in on the details…good work

5

I wonder if, after all this, it wouldn’t just be easier to figure out a way to safely fire the live round and then pound out the case as needed without fear?

6

+1 I was thinking of putting it over some hot coals and running!

7

Or just assemble the gun (without the extractor and/or ejector if that’s the issue) and fire the damn thing downrange, then pound out the case as needed without fear.

I don’t know. Maybe I’m overlooking something and that wasn’t feasible in these situations, and Ned’s a very clever problem-solver on these guns - but it seems like this would be a safe way to handle it.

8

Notice that the round in the chamber is a 5.45x39 and that the rifle is chambered in 5.56. 5.56 is 5.56x45 which means to assemble it and fire would be impossible as the BCG would not touch the head of the case (The base portion of the case, including that part next to the rim or extractor groove) if I understand the issue. I could be wrong but…

9

Luckily I have never had a round stuck to the point that mortar clearing didn’t work. Only a couple rounds pointing the wrong way above the bolt.

Would it be possible to cut the back of the case off to eliminate the primer?

10

That happened recently in the November Night Fighter class. On the range we tried removing it with cleaning rods, multi-tool and then a brass rod. Yes someone hammered one of the cleaning rods splitting the case. Finally we poured penetrating oil down the barrel and let it soak for a few hours. After the soak a Dewey cleaning rod with a brass patch jag was dropped in the barrel and it literally fell out with just the pressure of the rod falling on it.



11

^That appears to be a lacquered metal case. Do you think it played any role in the shell getting stuck?

12

Maybe it didn’t help but this constitutes a pretty serious metal-to-metal interference fit.

13

Can anyone describe mortar clearing? Never heard that term before.

14

Ned, you stated that you had two stories about fatalities. You mentioned the benchrest shooter and wife, but what was the other fatality story? Did it also involve handloads? Was the other fatality also due to the case acting as a projectile and firing backward through the receiver?

Although I have no reason to doubt your assertion that a round can be fired due to pounding a rod through the muzzle onto the projectile, and your warning is fully justified, I suspect that concerning incidents of misfires or stuck cases, most injuries result because of unsafe muzzle direction during the clearing process.

Back when I was a newbie shooter, I once helped an “experienced” shooter clear an empty case from his AR15’s chamber. He called me over and had me help him pound it out using a rod inserted through the muzzle. After a bit of wrestling, we finally removed the stuck case, but to our mutual horror, we found that the case wasn’t empty, but instead it was quite live. During the clearing process, the “experienced” shooter had pointed the muzzle in some very unsafe directions.

Nobody was harmed, but I learned a few lessons that day.

15

Used to clear a stuck round or casing. You kneel down and hold the rifle vertically with the stock toward the ground, holding the foreend with your left hand. Close the bolt over the stuck case/round and then slam, or “mortar” the rifle onto the ground while holding open the release latch on the charging handle. It generates a sudden “jerk” on the bolt that can help pull the stuck case/cartridge out.

16

Make sure you collapse your stock all the way first.

17

Thanks. I’ve used the method before just never seen that term.

18

Yes… good point. :smiley:

19

Also, take care to strike the stock squarely. There is a tendency to strike on the toe resulting in breaking off the toe on standard m4 stocks.

And, be very muzzle aware…

20

Beckman, let me see if I can refresh myself on the details of that other incident.