Last Sunday my son had won a Smith & Wesson MP15-22 rifle and the nice man that donated the rifle for the raffle gave me some pointers that I would like to have verified.
He told me to order some spare mags quickly due to the plastic feed lips on the S&W OEM mags being a cause of problems as they quickly wear/deflect causing FTF issues. True or not? Optional upgrade path, I know of nothing?
I told him that I run my AR rifles wet and he told me do not do this with this S&W, clean it and oil it followed by a dry wipe. Nothing more. He also told me that he is an Armalite user and never wet oils his AR rifles and they work better this way, he says I should really stop slathering oil on my bolt and bolt carrier. Whatever… I know he is FOS on the AR, but is there a reason I want to run this .22L version dry or near dry, or should I let the oil run freely like I do on my .223/5.56 versions?
What if any spare parts should be purchased for this based on those of you that now have put some time (rounds) on them? Does Grant have parts in stock yet, or where do I go for spare parts?
I’m considering putting my Millet RDS on here for my son since I’m buying a Eotech 512 from a member here. Any good reason not to do AR toye accessories for the .22L rifle version? My son and I typically shoot out to 100 yards, him with his Rugar 10/22, so I assume this will be nearly as accurate as the Rugar at 100 yards… am I right in thinking this?
I am not aware of any magazines other than the OEM mags. I did have feeding issues with the mag that came with my gun, but the three OEM mags I subsequently ordered have been faultless. Which reminds me, I need to get off my lazy butt and get S&W to exchange that first mag.
I have run mine “nearly dry” and “very wet”, and it seems that the wet attracts quite a bit more unburned powder and residue, but I haven’t noticed a marked difference in reliability between the two.
As for accuracy, I haven’t done much comparison testing out to 100 yards, but at 50 yards, this rifle is more accurate than my stock 10/22. Trick it out to your heart’s content…why not, right?
In the lastest issue of Gun Tests magazine, a reader wrote in to complain about the S&W AR-22’s ability to fire when the bolt is not completely closed. He noted blown cartridge cases and splattering brass. I have had one experience with what seemed like a two-round full-auto burst on mine, and am not sure if this was related to the reader’s issue or not. It’s on my “to google research” list.
Went out and put about 150 rounds through each one. The one problem we are having with both is that once in a while I am having a new round scraped partially forward in the mag but rather than going into the chamber it ends up pointing straight up with the rim still caught at the forward edge of the magazine lips. You have to pull the bolt back and hold it while ejecting the magazine, the mag requires some force added to be pulled down. Once the mag is out, the bullet is difficult to get slid back towards the rear so that it can be removed.
One was run oiled but dry wiped and the other was run AR-15 wet and sloppy with oil. This seemed to not effect the FTF issue.
I will be going out tomorow to shoot another couple hundred rounds from each, BTW: I was using Federal Value Pack (525 count) while getting this problem. Tomorow will be Remingtom Thunderbolts.
Also, when I went to grab a second rifle on a whim… I saw a Walther P22 and just HAD to add that to the safe!
Well, we went out and put about 1000 rounds through them, about 500 each. Today we used a bit of CCI Blazer and Remington and a bit more of that Federal 525 round bulk pack stuff. We had wierd results. It really was like the ammo is not the cause, we would go 2-3 mags of one brand with not an issue and suddenly have this FTF 3 times in the next magazine. This scenario would play out no matter what ammo. Here is the one thing I did notice as a pattern, the FTF always happened when you had over 10 rounds in the magazine, never when you were down under 10 rounds. So it seems that as you let the spring pressure off, the reliability goes up.
I took some pictures to show you all of the failure and also on a good note of the accuracy at 20 yards at our indoor range. I’m impressed in the fact that the rifle is more accurate than me, because trust me, I am not a dead ringer by any means!
Pictures of group at 20 yards and pictures of the very typical FTF:
All in all we had a great few hours in the range, we played some games where we used ring type bulls-eye targets and the rings were worth more points as you got closer to the bull, we would do 10 shoot groups and see who can score higher. I won…LOL!
Is the blue spring a magazine spring? I’ll take a look once You tell me where the blue spring is But I’m guessing that I don’t have the blue spring. did this spring help the feed issue on you guys guns?
I had the same issue of the round standing straight up in the mag. Ran Federal 330 and Remington GB and both had the same issue (3-5 rounds then a FTF). Switched to Federal 550 and purchased a second mag and out of 250 rounds (10 mags) I had 4 FTF’s and one FTE.
Funny how .22’s can be so picky on ammo.
I have not run my M&P 15-22 wet but I did field strip, put it through a good cleaning, and light coat of CLP on her. I also don’t have the blue spring and my extractor was perfect from the factory.
ETA: There is a difference between the mag that came with my .22 and the new one I just purchased. The “kit” mag seemed to be more plastic looking and felt cheaper. The new one looked more composite than plastic, the spring seems stiffer, and the whole mag just seems to have tighter tolerances.
OK Tornado - I also purchased 4 extra magazines (2 per rifle) when I got the second rifle, but the 4 I got appear to be identicle in every detail to the 2 that came with the rifles. Maybe there an early and late version of the magazines? Everything from physical shape, color, surface texture… it all appears the same.
FourxFour - I 100% DO NOT have this blue spring. I will be on the phone with Smith&Wesson Monday to get the lowdown on it and see what they say. I may point them at this post and my photos of the typical failure. I had that exact failure with the three ammo types my son and I had, Remington Thunderbolt, Federal 525 round bulk pack and the CCI Blazer .22L ammo. None really seemed better or worse than the other. I’m thinking the cause at this point is in the design the rifle more so than the ammo selection.
I just called S&W and they are sending 2 return shipping labels. I asked a couple questions, one was on the wet/dry and he said that you do not want them dry, but yet not overly wet with oil. He suggested clean it, dry wipe it and then put a couple drops on the bolt slide area and a drop on the pivot for the ejector.
I mentioned that I see much more talk about the FTE on the Smith-Wessonforums.com forum and very little talk about the FTF in comparison. He said that so far compared to the number of rifles sold the rate of FTF/FTE is not overwhelming and that anyone that calls has the return shipping label sent by S&W and the rifle gets pulled back and tweaked and shipped back out with good results.
My guess is that it’s a new line and there some teething pains to be experianced and they will hook me up and have them running like champs in short order.
So far… Smith seems to standing up and taking care of the customer.
BTW - We did discuss the loading of mags and he said my method was good to go. I explained that I hold the mag so that the bullet is rear end down and I pull down on the 2 rounded pins on the sides of the mag and drop the bullet in one at a time. Each bullet entry is followed by a little pull and release of the magazine follower to seat the bullet all the way back and it also naturally sets the stagger correctly.
So it will be a week or two before I get them back from Smith I suppose, and I’ll be sure to fill you all in!
BTW #2 - My serial numbers are:
DTM46-- for the one with the flash suppressor.
DTU63-- for the one with the non threaded barrel.
i’ve had my 15-22 for a while. unfortunately the first time to the range i only had the one mag it came with. i got the six i ordered from 44mag.com the next day. :rolleyes:
the FTF problem seems to be caused by not having the back end of the cases staggering/alternating left/right.
don’t pull down on the button and drop rounds in, load one at a time and pull down as you go. supposedly if you pull down on the follower and let it snap up, or pull down and tap the bottom of the mag it helps stagger them.
had trouble loading fully loaded mags for mag changes at an indoor “run and gun” carbine shoot… after that i just downloaded by one round and the problem went away. same trick as loading 28 in a 30rd 5.56 mag.
Troy has a nice sling loop for the front of the rails. it’s $25, but i ordered the one with the hole for a QD sling swivel from AIM surplus for $28 with free shipping before i discovered they also had one without it. the hole doesn’t matter as it’s covered by the sling webbing, and now the rifle has a sling.
i don’t think mine has the blue springs.
Black Dog Machine makes feed towers for the 15-22 for their 50rd drum. expect to see 26rd mags from them in the near future, but i don’t think there’s anything wrong with the factory mags.
the screws/knobs on the sights need blue loctite.
feeding mine with Federal bulk pack with no problems other than a few FTF when i get lazy loading the mags.
wish i’d been able to get one with the threaded muzzle, but the flash hider is just for looks…there’s NO flash from a .22 out of a 16" barrel. would be nice to add a can to it eventually… so i may get it threaded at some point… and a FH would look correct. it seems naked now.
i’m MUCH more satisfied with this than i EVER was with the last 10/22 i had.
just need to get back to the range this weekend and send some lead downrange!
I am always leary of using Loctite near plastics of any sort, and while I don’t know what types of plastic are used on the S&W, here is the text from the Loctite MSDS for reference:
This product is not normally recommended for use on plastics
(particularly thermoplastic materials where stress cracking of
the plastic could result).
I have seen, firsthand, the cracking of ABS plastics caused by Loctite 243. Be careful.
Larry- smith has some of the best c/s around… surprising for such a large company. I’m certain they will make it right. See ya in may! Oh… and… nice on the walther. A lot of people trash talk 'em. I have close to 10k rounds through mine… only issues I’ve encountered were ammo related. Fed bulk and cci mini mags run like a champ! Good cheap practice.
But I’m guessing that I don’t have the blue spring. did this spring help the feed issue on you guys guns?