I literally just threw this together an hour ago, so it’s not even zeroed yet. Hopefully I’ll get that done tomorrow assuming I’m not shoveling my driveway here in NoVA. So far I’ve spent about the past half hour doing the draw, presentation, and dry-fire thing, trying to get the hang of acquiring the dot. It’s about as difficult as I expected, which is to say that the primary problem is finding the dot when your grip is off. Otherwise, this seems like it’s going to have similar benefits to adding a RDS to a carbine. Hopefully I’ll get some range time in the next two weeks or so and see if I can’t wring this setup out. For now some pics:
Once I get good with it and I make sure nothing’s going to break on me, I’ll be using this as my carry setup.
Specs:
Insight MRDS - 7MOA
JP Enterprises - J-Point Mount
Arredondo - J-Point to Docter Adapter shim
You’d think the height would be a problem right? So far, just playing around with it this evening, it’s proving to be less and less of an issue as I get used to using it.
As to why I chose this over the J-Point, this sight is supposed to be far more rugged. I’m aware that tons of people have used J-Points for a long time without issue, but if I’m carrying this for social purposes I like knowing that it passed military tests for water and impact resistance. I may not be rolling around in the surf zone with this on my pistol, but it’s just layers of reliability. Another issue is that the J-Point has to be removed to replace the battery, the MRDS has a battery hatch in the top. Perhaps a minor issue, but still. Also, the MRDS has positive click adjustments when zeroing and the intensity of the reticle is adjustable as well as having an auto mode, allowing this sight to be used in complete darkness or with night vision. Not that I own any nods.
Time will tell if this works for me, and if it doesn’t, I have an AK that’s begging to have this optic put on it.
Your set up looks great. I currently have a Trijicon/Jpoint milled into the slide of my M&P and although I really like my set up (sits very low & has a rear sight notch), I like the Insight Tec MRD better. I have one mounted on my Five-seveN pistol and one on my Remmy 870 shotgun. No other MRD gives you a top loading battery compartment as well as 1/8 moa positive click windage and elevation adjusters. It’s also nice that it is totally water proof, has night vision settings and is bomb proof. If you use the Insight on an AR or shotty they make a protective hood for it like EOTechs.
The problem with JPOINT’s is that that they are just not reliable. If you are going to mount a RDS on a pistol, it really needs to be one of the new “ruggedized” models that are being built for a .Mil contract. This means that the Insight MRDS and Trijicon RMR are your best choices.
So do you consider a BUIS option less of a necessity on a pistol? I am interested in this type of configuration however I am also personally uncomfortable carrying a weapon without some way to quickly revert to iron sights. My concern with the overall profile isnt about lack of performance while shooting but I would think that having a larger sight would be a detriment on a duty weapon as you would be more likely to bang it into things during daily holstered wear, or climbing into and out of vehicles etc. Also the lower edges of the sight and mount on the OP’s pistol would seem to create more of a snag hazard with concealment clothing. Perhaps my concerns are unfounded it may be much less unwieldy in practical use than I am imagining.
I considered this heavily before I went down this road. The conclusion I arrived at was that these little sights are becoming so reliable as to make it almost a non-issue, providing that the batteries are changed at regular intervals. Of course, this isn’t necessary with the dual illuminated RMR or the Aimpoint T-1, but those two sights also don’t have the options that the MRDS does. I understand fully the risk I’m taking, but with this new generation of RDS, it’s a calculated risk with huge potential payoffs in sighting capabilities. Now, if someone comes out with a low profile, ruggedized, J-Point pattern sight that can co-witness with irons, then obviously that’s the ideal. Until then, I feel pretty comfortable with what I’ve got, and we’ll see how it holds up over time. Also, when I actually get to get out and train, I want to test out the capability of this sight as a ghost ring when turned off. I suspect that’s a 5-7m technique at best, but we’ll see how it shakes out and I’ll report back.*
As to the size and profile of the sight, I don’t think it’s as big a deal as you perceive it to be. Drawing and presenting from appendix carry a bunch of times since I got it, I think I managed to get it caught on my shirt once, and IIRC I was intentionally pulling my shirt up in a halfhearted fashion to see what would happen. I don’t believe it poses any more of a problem than many rear sights that have an area designed to allow the user to rack the slide one-handed against a belt or similar. As is acquiring the dot at speed, it’s a training issue.
Regarding smacking it into stuff in daily use, that’s why the only options for serious use are the ruggedized mini optics. These optics are designed to be able to take it and retain zero.
I did get a chance to take it out and zero it yesterday, and I have to say so far I’m impressed. I didn’t have a lot of time so I only put 100 rounds through it. Firing 5 round groups, it took about 25 rounds to get it zeroed to my satisfaction at 25m. Most of the remainder of the ammo was spent making tiny little groups at various distances, but I did shoot a few 3 round strings as fast as I could. I don’t want to get too heavy into shooting terminology here, but what I was doing could be called “triple taps,” and I never lost the dot from my field of view. Think “bangbangbang.” If you’ve ever fired an NSR with a carbine equipped with a RDS, it was a lot like that. I think a lot of that could be attributed to the fact that the M&P9 is an exceptionally soft-shooting pistol and I don’t know if I could keep enough of a kung-fu grip to do that with another platform/caliber however. Bear in mind these are just my thoughts based on a lot of dry-fire and a grand total of 100 rounds, so don’t read too far into it. I’m still waiting on a good training day to get some real testing done.
*To give credit where credit is due, I got the idea for that from Gabe Suarez.
Yes, as most people NATURALLY point shoot when under stress (like in a gun fight).
I personally have a secondary option with the CT laser grips. One of the reasons why I went with the RMR (dual model) is that there are NO ELECTRONICS in it. So the odds of this optic going down are slim to none (as there is really nothing to break).
I have been drawing from concealment with mine (which is too high and will be changed when the correct mounts come out) and have not had any issues.
I haqve been carrying an RMR equipped Glock concealed now for some time. No issues at all and no problems in hiding it. These sights are the wave of the future.
Well that was a quick durability test… circa 130 rounds total:p. I was at the range the other day and after warming up with some groups, I shot some hammer pairs and the dot just flickered out. Bummer.
I tried repeatedly to turn it back on to no avail, and tried replacing the battery also with no effect. Insight has been notified, and I’m expecting a call back from them on Monday.
On the upside, I got a chance to test the “ghost ring” idea, and it does indeed work at close range. It works very well at 5m and in; I found that 10m is my personal outer limit for this technique.
My initial perception of the death of my optic is that I have what appears to be a lemon on my hands. I think you’ll all agree, especially given that there are lower-end optics out there with thousands and thousands of rounds under them that have not failed, that the MRDS I have is an anomaly. So, thus ends “Project RDS” for now, and begins “Project Let’s See How Insight Takes Care of Me.” They have a rep as a good company, so I’m expecting no difficulty.
Stand by for updates in what I assume will be a week or two.
The Trijicon RMR I am using is 8 MOA. The Glock has had alot of ammo shot through it with the RMR on it. No issues at all. As an experiment I added a tall suppressor front sight on it giving me an interesting sight pic. Worked pretty good out to about 25 M.
This post is not mean to disparage your choice in optics or your setup, but is meant to illustrate a point.
The above fail of the MRDS is why I believe that there has to be some rules/protocol when using a RDS on a pistol (that will be used for defensive purposes).
Rule # 1: The RDS has to be co-witnessed with irons.
Rule # 2: If the RDS is NOT co-witnessed, then there needs to be a reliable laser package on the gun.
I agree completely and those were the same conclusions I’ve come to in considering this over the past couple days. I can’t do the laser because I have little girl hands and the Crimson Trace setup is bigger than I like. Another option is a rail-mounted laser, but that’s a whole 'nother can of worms with regard to which one to get and finding a holster to fit it, etc. Which leaves having the optic sunk into the slide, and possibly a taller front sight installed, a la Gabe a couple posts up. Currently looking at some options for getting this done locally, but I’ll be going out of town soon for a good 6 months, so it may be a while before I post that particular update here. It’ll be interesting to see where this concept goes over the next year or so as it starts to catch on.
