Pappabear and I went out to test the various Russian Primers we use in our 77 SMK Target load. Tula and Wolf are reported to be produced at the same plant. But they all look different… color, etc. We ran some BR-4s as a sort of control group. All of the Russian had nice S.D.s. Each one had a different velocity too. They are without a doubt, NOT all the same primer.
I’ll post some velocities later.
All four of these were shot with 21.8 gr H322. All loaded on a Chargemaster in the same session
Wolf SRM - 2690 FPS S.D. 8
Wolf .223 - 2715 FPS S.D. 13
Tula 223M - 2692 FPS S.D. 10
CCI BR-4 - 2756 FPS S.D. 22
All the Russians had very acceptable S.D.s… and even though the Wolf .223s were 13, they ran hotter and put 4 bullets touching off a folding ass table using a Bipod.
Very interesting. I will definitely be following this and possibly adding to it as I do more load development.
What length barrel are you using? I’m guessing 18"?
What was the range of those groups?
Interesting, thanks for the post. I also did some testing today with a 21.6 & 21.8 H322 load, both using CCI#41. This was out of a 20" BCM SS410.
The 21.6=2671 SD-21
The 21.8 average was actually slower & the SD was considerably higher.
Midway has the Tula’s in stock right now so maybe I’ll give them a shot. I just hate paying the hazmat fee. Although even with it, it brings it up to about the same price as the others.
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Hmmm… is that a table that requires folding one’s ass to sit at it?
Or a table that’s shaped like an ass, and folds?
Or a folding table designed specifically for an ass?
Nevermind, I just want to follow this thread…
I have got to think it’s that primer. I bet that the heavy bullet combined with H322 doesn’t like a hot military primer. Did you collect any S.D. and E.S. numbers?
100 yards, Rem 700 20" bolt gun. I’d probably have been better off shooting prone on the mat.
I did. I’ll email you the print outs if you promise not to make fun of my SD’s. 
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The whole point of the Russian primers is to reduce SDs. I’d expect massive SD numbers with Mil primers.
Also… Are you adding a light crimp? Although unrelated to your cyclic issue, that cut my group sized in half for my process.
I did run a slight crimp on a few batches but I haven’t tested those for accuracy yet. Yesterday was a velocity only test. I need warmer weather for the accuracy thing.
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The one other thing I want to try is a different crimp method. I want to see if adding ANY crimp helps, or if it’s specifically the LEE FCD.
They are made at the same factory, but that in no way indicates that they ARE the same.
Yep. Seems like the WOLF SRMs and the TULA which both have a green priming compound perform almost the same. The Wolf .223 primers have a copper colored compound and definitely yielded a different velocity.
I’d take any of the three.
Couple quick points to add to Marks report. The squares on that Target are one inch squares. Making several of those clearly SUB MOA. And two of those groups if you take out the one “flier” you have sub 1/2 MOA group. The flier might be the load or the nut behind the trigger? That makes that an impressive load.
I took my gas gun with bergara 16 inch barrel and shot almost as good. MOA was the norm but a little more opened up. I shot the groups pretty quickly and a lesser scope, so I’m sure the user error played into it. But I wanted to make sure the loads shot well out of more than one gun. Because the hallmark of this load, is it shoots great in many different guns.
H322 is for 69 and 77 grain loads. Not light bullets. Just a thought in case you want to use H322.
Those Tula passed the test.
Did you measure the velocity out of the 16 inch gas gun? I just scored some h322, and I’ve had some tula primers laying around for a while. I’m anxious to try the combo out this spring.
Not this time, but have in the past
69g SMK’S 2697 fps
77g SMK’S 2527 fps
Don’t take crimp for granted. Everyone’s load is unique to their equipment and technique of course… but crimp made all the difference in the world in my process.
Will crimping effect pressure? I’m going to work my way up to the 21.8 (it will be in a 5.56 gun, so I’m not overly concerned, but still, I always error on the side of caution when I’m reloading). But once I verify that load is safe in my gun is there any reason to back it down a little as I test the crimp, then work my way back up with the crimp I settle on?
I’ve not found one single scrap of evidence to suggest that a normal crimp impacts pressure at all to the point of spiking velocity. With a match bullet you’re going to want to crimp lightly enought that you don’t deform the bullet anyway.
And I’ve gone a good bit over the max of 21.8 without getting pressure signs. I can’t remember the exact load, and would have to work up all over again to develop it. Our hot Mk 262 wannabee load uses XBR. H322 is faster than XBR, so I feel a little better going 5.56 pressure with the slightly slower XBR powder… but pumping up the H322 a little bit is still a goal.