Been really contemplating grabbing one of these instead of getting a noveske. What do you guys think of it compared to a AR? Most of the reviews I have read said it is better than an AR in ever aspect.
Do you already have at least one AR?
I would get one as a second or third but I think an AR of good manufacture is the best choice for a 1st rifle for personal defense etc. Mainly due to familiarity and also parts availability. You may not have easy access to parts in the future in some hell of a future and will more likely be able to get access to AR type parts than esoteric (XCR, ACR, SCAR, SIG, HK, etc)
Of course they do.
I can also go to the Toyota forums and find out why a Tundra is better than an F150, and the Ford forums and find the exact opposite. People love what they purchase, and will rarely admit that they made a bad purchase, often spending hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars to cover up said bad purchase just so they don’t have to admit that it happened.
Do a benefits:liabilities analysis of the AR/M4 and the XCR. When I did mine, for my situation, I had a hard time finding any benefits to put in the XCR column. YMMV
From my experience it has its pros and cons. I’ve used M16/M4s for years and have put about 10k rounds through my XCR at several duty locations and I much prefer the XCR. Once you figure out the design, it really does translate into more advantages over the AR.
Pros over AR15:
-Less recoil when gas set to correct level.
-Affordable piston driven design which stays VERY clean.
-Doesn’t seem to be as sensitive to dusty environments. Did a 1000rd course of fire at Lake Mead in Arizona with lots of sand exposure to the action. M4s in the group of 20 officers were having trouble, XCR didn’t.
-Allows for cheaper caliber conversion and you don’t have to remove your irons, buis, or optics unlike an AR which requires a different upper.
-Magazine rides higher and uses cartridge guide instead of typical feed ramp. Benefits are more reliable feeding and cartridge noses do not impact ramp and cause deformation or hang-ups. Will feed any hollow point design unlike a M4 which usually won’t.
-Ambidex bolt release/open.
-Easier cleaning and maintenance.
-No small parts to lose, and no tools needed for field strip.
There are other things such as the beefed up bolt design, solid ejector, and proprietary extractor design which seem to be better. However, I have not pushed my weapons to the point of breaking parts to see which one is tougher.
Cons over AR15:
-Heavier
-Not “quite” as accurate as a M4, but pretty darn close. Piston action slighly degrades accuracy.
-Stock rides lower which has more of a Galil/AK cheek weld position.(AR fans don’t like it)
-Trigger is two-stage and stiff. Mine broke in quite nicely after a few hundred rounds. Single-stage triggers are available.
My XCR is an early production model and has undergone the gas system and piston upgrade, along with the firing pin upgrade. Prior to the gas system upgrade, my XCR wound not reliably feed lower power ammunition such as Wolf and Winchester Ranger when I was in the deserts of Arizona. Then again, most of our agency M4s would not feed either reliably in that environment. After the upgrade, it feed them with no problems. Other issues that some owners have complained about is the ejector bolts coming loose after 1000+ rounds fired. RA recommends that you check their tightness with a 1/4" wrench during cleaning in addition to typical parts inspection. Most complaints about the XCR are more due to user lack of familiarity with the design and its needs. I just put blue loctite on my ejector bolts and 8k rounds later it has never come loose.
Is it worth it? IMO…yes. However, in this day and age I would definately get a classic Colt M4 for parts availability. The XCR should definately stay on your wish list.
I honestly do believe I made a good purchase and Im not trying to fool myself monetarily.
I like my new addition, the XCR controls are very ergonomic and welcomed change over my AR. I do have a complaint though, its just a tad heavier than the AR. I ordered a heavy barrel to, so that didnt help weight matters any.
I enjoy it, it seems like a very tight weapon and its fun to shoot. Hope that helps…
I own 3 Colts (6920 x 2, 6520) they are goods guns. I wouldnt part with them for anything.
However, I prefer my XCR in all ways. It gives me everything the AR15 does and then some and then some. It’s like comparing a Camry to an Audi. Sure they both have wheels and drive on gas, but the Audi offers more to the driver. Same with the XCR compared to an AR15. They both shoot 5.56 but the XCR obviously has a better feature set compared to my Colts and dollar for dollar gives the shooter more.
As far as I am concerned it isnt even a far comparison because the two products arent even in the same peer group. A better comparo would be between the SCAR and XCR.
While the XCR has the potential to be a top tier rifle system, as of right now there are several reasons why it will never be a contender for serious use. Some of those reasons are barrel twist (1 in 9"), screwed-on gas block, non-picatinny spec rails, etc. And it’s heavier and more costly than an AR.
The new gas system is not screwed on(old one was). Adjustments are made with a quick turn of the nob…no tools needed. The RA custom shop will make you a barrel with a 1/7" twist for an addition $100. I don’t have any accuracy issues using 75gr Hornady TAP with just the 1/9" twist at 100m, plus barrel life is longer when you get into the 50k+ round count. As far as the rails go, I never had any problem mounting lights, lasers, sling mounts, fore handles, or an Aimpoint.
From Robinson Arms website:
XCR Specs:
Rails:
12 O’clock Position (Top) Rail: 1913 Standard Picatinny Rail, 17" Long
3, 6, and 9 O’clock Position Rails: 1913 Standard Picatinny Rails, 8" Long
Do we have any hard-use, high round count data on any XCR’s?
Having owned an XCR, it has potential. When comparing 16" barrel guns(XCR/AR) the only real advantage for the XCR is the folding stock, and charging handle. When talking SBR’s the XCR pulls ahead. Main advantage is the piston system for it’s obvious advantages. The folding stock on the SBR’d XCR makes for a very compact package. Robinson needs to get with the program and ditch the 1/9 barrels for 1/7". The XCR I had was accurate with 55/62 gr loads, but dismal with 75/77gr loads. I’m actually considering buying another, just to SBR it, I sold my last one to my Step Dad and he loves it. Current round count on the gun is in the 8K range, 5K ran by myself. It’s an early model, 8xx serial # range, no updates so far. Only cleaned twice at 2500 rds and 5000 rds.
This made me laugh-
But seriously, would definately go with a Noveske over an XCR.
There are some novelties with an XCR, but nothing worth it to me.
My first XCR hit the 10k mark before I traded it off, of which the majority was Wolf, Brown Bear and Silverbear. Accuracy was 2-2.5 MOA in my hands at 100 yards at the end
The finish was worn a bit on the bolt, but the upper internally was in good shape
The only major issue I ever had with the gun was with the old gas system. The gas nut would become loose over time. The Gen2 gas system doesnt have this problem
Outside of that, I’ve never had a problem. Gas setting 3 works best with all ammo. The bolt stays cool and fouling is low so the gun will maintain it’s lube even after a full case of ammo
My 2nd XCR hasnt seen as much use due to the higher ammo prices, work and newborn
i love mine, but i agree its soooo good its boring. not allot of ad ons for it, it just works right out of the box. mine is one of the first gen 2 guns. i waited a year before i cleaned it the first time. LOVE IT SUPPRESSED. love the bolt release, trigger was ok, but i did have bill springfield redo it.
My first XCR hit the 10k mark before I traded it off
After or during it’s 10k run, did any parts break or have to be replaced due to wear?
Could a well built M4 carbine last 10k without preemptive maintenance or breaking anything?
My XCR is probably slightly over the 10k mark. It is an early production model with a low serial number. Most of the ammunition I have shot out of it is American Eagle, XM193, and M855. So, a lot of high powered stuff.
Prior to replacing the gas system with the newer piston and valve, I had some failures to eject because the old gas system was not optimized to feed lower powered stuff like Wolf. Since the update, no failures. No parts have broken or shown abnormal wear. I’d shoot it a lot more if I was allowed to use it for duty and thus do more training and qualifications with it.
With regard to the M4, provided that you buy a quality model from a manufacturer such as Colt or FN it should last 30k-50k and still shoot like new. Once you near the 50k mark you might start developing looser tolerances and want to replace your upper. However, if you’ve bought 30k-50k worth of 5.56…then the cost of a new upper is chump change.
The armory at FLETC seems to be replacing 1/7" twist barrels at that mark as well. Those faster twist barrels may put a better spin on the 70gr+ bullets, but it does seem to wear out the barrels faster. We’ve got an older 1/12" rifle that has seen probably 150k rounds and it still keeps tight groups with M193. If for what ever reason you can’t get a barrel replacement for your rifle(Obama?), the 1/9" twist doesn’t seem that bad on the XCR.
50,000 rounds is A LOT through an M4. I noticed a decrease in accuracy on a Colt MT6601C at around 25-30,000 rounds, but I don’t think that barrel is chrome lined.
So what’s being said is, at 10K+ for an M4, the extractor will not need replacing? The M4’s plunger ejector will not wear out to the point of constant malfuntions? the bolt will still be strong? etc etc etc?
Given that you have a quality, military spec M4 that follows the TDP like Colt or FN, then you “should” be able to reach 30k-50k rounds before something breaks or weakened springs start to cause function problems. This is also dependent on how much tender loving care you give your rifle and the extent of your understanding of the design. Then again, you can always get a part that isn’t as good as another and have a bolt break at 10k rounds. Stuff happens.
Umm… what tools are needed to field strip an AR?
My thoughts exactly