Rob Haught Shotgun AAR

Training Training AAR's
1

Just got back from Rob’s Shotgun class in Marietta Ohio. This was my first formal shotgun training class. I ran a Benelli M4 (one of two autoloaders in the class) with an Aimpoint C3 and a BFG Vickers Padded sling.

Preface:

I am NOT a “shotgun guy.” I do not believe it is the best choice as a defensive tool and have pretty much hit the “delete button” on it for most of my adult life. To quote Vickers: “WTF do I need a shotgun for?” Was he right???

Having known Rob for a couple years now, I knew him to be an expert/guru with the shotgun and of course a fan of it (which I respected). So I went to the class with the intention of embracing the shotgun as a defensive weapon. Being open minded is always the best way to absorb information.

As an instructor Rob did a very good job. Few instructors can present information in a proper manner, back up what they teach by performing and also entertain the class. Rob did all three of these well I think. He had a good mix of instruction coupled with interesting .Gov stories.

Rob’s technique of reducing felt recoil by 50% works AS advertised. So well that you can shoot a 12GA SG flat footed (weight on heels), square to the target with the SG stock on TOP of your shoulder and you will not be pushed back! :eek:

The other technique that Rob has come up with is the “CQB” position. This GREATLY shortens the OA length of the SG making it much more user friendly when clearing a room. Since I was running a Benilli M4, the stock was WAY too long. With this technique, I was able to really shorten the SG up and effectively put rounds on target from 12yds out!

Some of the other things of interest were his ability to select a slug and get it into the weapon VERY quickly. Got some cool drills for shooting and reloading that will make most people admit defeat. :smiley:

Rob talked about how to properly “pattern” your shotgun so that you understand the effective range of it. We also discussed ammo selection and the use of 7 1/2-8shot for home defense. Both Rob and Ken Hackathorn (who showed up to run the shoot house) believe that this is a good load for targets that are at rooms length. At these distances, the 7 or 8 shot will be very destructive and have little concern of killing people in the next room or apartment. If you are outside of a “normal” room distance, than this load is NOT a good idea.
IMHO, the best deployment for this load is create a barricade position in a room (making the bad guy come to you so that you can control the distance fired).

If you are a “SG Guy” or just curious about what you can do with one, then I would HIGHLY suggest taking a class from Rob. You will learn a lot, have a much better appreciation for the SG (which I now do) and be able to better deploy it.

Some thoughts on autoloaders VS pump guns. My M4 had ZERO malfunctions and I believe the other shooter that was running an auto had two (which were user induced). The majority of the pump guns had a malfunction that the user induced by short stroking the gun. We saw this particularly bad in the shoot house when everyone’s adrenaline was running high.
The question I have now running in my head is the auto SG a better choice (especially in times of stress)?? Talking with some of the other guys at the class, the answer MIGHT be a yes. IMHO, a QUALITY auto is superior for MY needs than is a pump gun YMMV.

C4

Range

Rob Haught

What happens when you shoot a SG normally.

Proper technique applied

Showing students how much pressure needs to be to the rear.

Rob explaining his technique.

2

Rob’s CQB Technique

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3

What’d you do, hand out m4carbine.net hats to everyone before the class started?

As to the shotgun in general, is it safe to say that you didn’t know what you didn’t know? :wink:

4

Class trying the CQB technique

Box drills

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5

What ammo did you run for the class? Shooting 00 or 4buck could get expensive in a hurry. Were you guys using 7 or 8 shot during the class?

Also, if possible, not to give away all the secrets, but what is it that he’s teaching? I’ve not been real big into defensive shotguns either, but I had a guy show me a push/pull technique that seems to tame recoil quite a bit. Also seemed to help eliminate short stroking as there was a very deliberate and exagerated change in motion when chambering a round.

Thanks for the write up.

6

Most everyone in the class had an M4C hat already. :wink:

I have been around shotguns most of my life (rabbit hunter and SKEET range officer for 10yrs). I mostly viewed them as a hunting tool though.

So the class gave me a better understanding of what they can and cannot do.

Will a shotgun be replacing my AR and pistol for HD? No. Can I now use a SG in a CQB environment and handle myself? Sure can.

C4

7

I ran Winchester AA 7 1/2 load, Winchester Military 00 Buck and Winchester rifled slugs.

In regards to the buck and slug, I tried to follow what the Military and LE units would use.

We used 7-8 shot for most of the class.

You basically use your hands in a 70/30 strength ratio to remove recoil from your body.

C4

8

I really wish I could have made this class but work prevailed.

Will you be hosting Rob again?

9

If there is enough interest, we might do another one.

C4

10

Hello All;

Just wanted to say hello and comment on the program this past weekend. First of all thanks to the students who came so far to train and worked hard all weekend. The WX was perfect and the facility supported the class well with no distractions and all the props needed for this class. This was a particularly talented group who were experienced shooters and veterans of some good training programs. Its a pleasure to work with folks who have a genuine interest in the training and apply themselves. As in all things there will be things you like and things you wont in any program but I think most folks came away with a better understanding of the pros and limitations of the shotgun as a defensive tool and can make a better choice of equipment and weapon platforms. Thanks to Grant and M4Carbine for the logistics. Thanks again for a great weekend.

Rob

11

Transition Drills

Figure 8 Drills

Class Stack

David and Goliath :smiley:

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12

Great class Rob and thanks again for all your hard work.

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13

Rob did some patterning with his 14" shotgun at about 18yds to show us the difference between the Federal Flight Control 00 Buck shot and standard Winchester 00 Buck.

The Flight Control Buck was simply amazing and really changes the effective range of 00 Buck.

At about 18yds, buck shot become a liability as you are almost off the target at this distance.

Federal Flight Control 00 Buck @ 12yds

Federal Flight Control 00 Buck @ 18yds

Winchester 00 Buck @ 18yds

C4

14

Enjoyed the class very much - new instructor and new weapon type. From previous training with LAV and Hackathorn, Rob’s style and take on many issues fell pretty much in line with a lot of what I had learned to date.

I was quite happy with my shotgun, and don’t plan on making any changes to it. The only thing I modified during class was a little dab of white metal-marker on the tip of the front sight… I may change this to bright orange.

After close to 300 rounds over a two day period, I have nary a mark on my right shoulder. This is rather amazing as I am 5’ 8", 185 lbs., and shot a full-size 12 gauge all weekend. Rob’s recoil control method works as advertised.

Cleared up some internet mythology about the weapon and ammo as well - when Rob and Ken both say the same thing, that should be a clue.

Nothing remarkable with ammo with the sole exception of the Federal Flight Control round - rather amazing, actually. This round alone should dictate a solid sighting system on your personal weapon, as it opens up new possibilities.

Thanks again Rob and Grant - great class.

edited to add: Special thanks to Templar for the world’s scariest ride in a pickup truck! :smiley:

15

Rob it was nice to be in the class and you are a great instructor and lots of fun. All the guys that I brought to class loved the control of the shotgun they came away with. It was an eye opening experience for us all. The CQB potion that you taught was just unreal. I like to take classes from someone that is a true gun guy and you are that for sure. I would love to have a longer class with more shooting as it is just fun to shoot the shotgun when it is not hurting you! By the end of class I could have shot the rest of the day and all the night. It is fun to take a gun that everyone is afraid of and make it behave. Thank you.

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16

At the end of TD2, we (the class) wanted to see how fast we could shoot 5rds out of our guns. Rob went first. He was able to run 5rds out of his gun in the low two second range with what seemed to be little to no effort.

Below are a succession of pics of him doing the drill. Notice the lack of muzzle climb as he runs through the rounds.

This time he did the 5rd drill from the CQB position.

17

Great review and pics.

I am wondering if the CQB position does anything in terms of reducing or increasing the liklihood of shortstroking a pumpgun.

Realize that my only exposure to this position has been through internet pictures and posts.

thanks,

18

Below are pics of guys running through the shoot house with Ken Hackathorn.

19

I would say no. The CQB position can actually create a different type of malfunction where the hull sits straight up in the chamber.

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20

Grant,

Thanks very much for the photos and the writeup. I have been looking forward to reading this AAR, and training with Chief Haught in the future.