I posted this in the Magpul section of TOS. What is M4C’s take on it?
"Hello,
Question is how does one best employ a rimfire(M&P15-22) in training without adding any training scars? FWIW, my rimfire is set up identical to my 5.56 gun. Obviously there is the weight, recoil and some malfunction differences. What else should if be thinking about?
Thank You
Patrick Scott"
My opinion is that what you stated is about the best you can do. The only other thing I could suggest is what Ken Hackathorn recently suggested, which is to shave some time off performing the same drills in order to compensate for the lack of recoil.
Thank you, reduction in time/target size was one of the thing on my list. How much time you think? 1/2? 3/4?
I shot both rifles back to back for the first time this weekend and recoil was the biggest difference I noticed. The heavier 5.56 rifle didn’t really seem to move/transtion slower to me, even though I’m sure it did.
One of big things I like about the rimfire is the fact that I can mess with gear setup/placement with live fire without breaking the bank.
Shaving time off a drill makes no sense to me. You’re conditioning yourself to do things faster than you can with a real carbean.
I catch myself doing this on occasion when I’ve been shooting rimfire pistol.
Valid point
Any alternate suggestions?
To the extent that manipulations are the same, a .22 stand-in for your regular weapon is just fine. Marksmanship fundamentals are an easy one. Snap shots/mounting the gun should be more or less the same. Reloads, if your mag configuration is essentially identical to normal. Target to target transitions to an extent. Shooting on the move to an extent. Etc.
Anything that involves recoil management, however, goes right out the door if you use your twenty-two. It is far too easy to develop bad habits because you can get so sloppy when the gun doesn’t really recoil.
I posted something on my site about this a couple months ago. It pertains specifically to pistols, but the fundamental approach would be the same with a long gun.
There’s no shame in admitting that shooting a .22 is fun. It can have some actual practice value, but it’s limited. I think the absolute best thing a .22 is good for when it comes to range practice is for shooting 25 yard bullseye, focusing on trigger control.
For everything else, you’re really shortchanging yourself. Anything outside of pure trigger control practice involves recoil management, and taking recoil out of the picture will (at least partially) invalidate the drill.
25 Yard Bullseye - I don’t know exactly what this is, but I think your saying single shots while standing at 25 yards, trying to accuarately place the bullet? This would be nice for my ongoing battle with trigger flinch right?
Buut would you advocate against dry fire drills because of the lack of recoil?
Lots of things can be practiced without recoil that can improve your skills. Some are better practiced without recoil. I’ve seen a lot of shooters that can’t grasp technique errors during live fire because the noise and recoil is what they focus on.
Draws, extension to fire, target to sight focus transitions, target transitions and reloads all become smoother and more fluid when you take away the things that distract your focus.
The anticipation of the “BANG!” is what screws with my head. My son has been doing a thing that The_Katar showed me where I lay my pistol down and turn my back so my son can pick up a mag with 1 round and insert or a mag with no rounds and insert it. He then racks the slide and sets it down. This way I do not have a clue if it will go bang or not. I stand at 20 feet, take aim and CLICK! and I jerk the gun sideways. So we do this over and over, me not knowing if it is a bang or a click. This has done more to help my shooting than the last 15 or so years of pushing lead down a barrel.
Can someone take a moment to define the 25 yard bullseye, or did my description in the post above pretty much spell it out?
You pretty much have it right. It’s aimed, sighted fire at a set distance on a static target to improve your aim, sight alignment, trigger control and follow through.
You can absolutely practice things like draws and reloads dry fire and with a .22 kit. However, subzero makes a perfectly valid point. If you rush your dry fire practice and do things wrong you’re going to develop bad habits. The whole point of dry fire is to eliminate the noise, blast, and performance anxiety (hitting) so you can focus on performing a technique flawlessly.
Practicing your draw at full speed ten times is not dry fire practice. If you’re not going well below full speed for most of your dry fire routine, you’re missing the point.
The same is true with the .22 kit. If you purposely rush your grip and presentation to break a shot as fast as you can and develop a bad grip habit as a result, that’s on you.
It should be fairly apparent that any time you practice something the wrong way, you’re hindering your training.
Practice doesn’t make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. That should be a given. 
if you’re complaining about the recoil from the 5.56 compared to the .22 perhaps you need to eat your Wheaties! 
it’s also possible that a heavier buffer may reduce felt recoil in the 5.56. i’ve got two virtually identical rifles. both have 16" pencil barrels and are light weight. the one that currently has a “standard” carbine buffer has more noticeable recoil than the one with the H buffer. i need to get an H or H2 buffer to fix that.
i also have a 15-22. it’s not identical to any of the other ARs, but similar to all the carbines.
I didn’t get that from any of the posts. Unless I am mistaken, we are discussing mitigating the issues that can arise from high volumes of drills done with .22 instead of full power 5.56mm. I don’t think anyone is complaining about the recoil of 5.56mm…
As the OP, that is what I was asking. The more I think about it, the less I believe shorter par times are the way to go. Makes more sense to me to have smaller targets instead. I do understand that smaller will not always work, but I think it’s the lesser of two evils. A distance/drill dependent combo would be best way.
This weekend I may try some drills both ways to see what works better.