I’m helping out my 71 year old father with a little research. He works at a retail vitamin/nutrition store and closes it by himself several nights a week. Although he lives in a relatively safe area, he does have to make the deposit of the day’s sales to the bank, at night, several times a week. He is uncomfortable doing this on a routine basis.
I had been encouraging him to get a gun for home defense for quite some time. Only recently he revealed that he owns a .357 Ruger revolver because his late wife, my step-mom, wanted them to have a gun! He hadn’t fired it in years. He had half a box each of .38 special and .357, with price tags indicating purchase in the mid 1990’s…
He has decided that he wants to open-carry while at work (legal in his state) and he wants to get a small “cell phone sized” revolver. He plans to shoot it to familiarize himself, but then admittedly does not plan to practice much at all, and no formal training.
I started out typing this post intending to seek some caliber and make/model recommendations. (I’m a Glock and S&W semi-auto guy with no revolver experience since 1990). As I read the words in front of me, I feel uneasy. Although he was trained and served as a USAF Air Policeman from 1959-61, he genuinely has never been a gun guy. He is fit, and active, but he is 71. I’m not sure in good conscience that I can recommend a purchase to him for open-carry in a retail environment several days a week unless he commits to practice and attending some knowledgeable training. Heck, we haven’t even begun to discuss retention holsters…
I live 6 hours away so I can introduce him to stuff, but can’t take him out regularly and can’t substitute in any event for a qualified instructor.
So, I’m open to recommendations on caliber/make/model revolver.
Open to reasons on why he might want to consider a semi-auto.
Especially open to some practical arguments/thoughts on how to impress upon him the need for formal training if he is going to open-carry while operating solo in a retail environment with the general public. Personally I would like to see him take a class and get a concealed carry permit, buy a .22 for frequent practice, and then carry a small semi-auto concealed. Some practical advice/arguments are welcome.
I’m in a similar predicament. My parents in law are both in their mid 70’s and have shown an interest in personal protection and guns. I recommended a G19, which my father in law bought last month. Now my mother in law is looking for a smaller pistol since her hands are too small for the G19. We used Skype and face time to do a little preliminary work, mainly about safety. I can hardly wait to go shooting with them.
Why “small revolver” since it will be “open carry” in the retail store?
Small revolvers are harder to control, harder to shoot accurate for those who does NOT practice and train REGULARLY. I emphasized those two capitalized words on purpose.
I applaud the revolver choice as it is easier to operate for those who does not practice and train regularly, see first paragraph.
A K frame revolver is much easier to control and if the barrel is longer than 2", more forgiving in terms of accuracy. A 2 1/2", 3" or 4" K frame would be the ticket. The 3" is ideal if they can find a model 65 (S&W). The Ruger Security Six and Service Six in 2 3/4" is not a bad choice either.
I would stay away from a semi automatic of any kind if the user is not or does not train/practice regularly. Everyone loves to recommend the G19, but if the user is not or does not have the time to train with it regularly, it’s not the best choice.
I worked with a group of ladies in their late 60s to mid 70s with similar needs and intents. To make a long selection process short, they ended up liking 3" revolvers best, SP101s and SW model 60s. It worked for them.
However, it’s not about age as much as range of motion, hand/grip strength, dexterity, ability to support weight at extension. Above all else, motivation.
Why not an LCR with Crimson Trace Laser Grips? 38+P is very manageable, and if he is not willing to put the time in as far as seeking training, and running drills on his own, at least the laser dot will show him where the hole is going to appear. If he is not willing to train then his ability to use front sight focus is probably going to be irrelevant anyhow.
Just being a realist here, not everybody who owns a gun is a “gun guy”, nor do they desire to be one. Some people are willing to settle for “good enough” sooner than others. Everybody has their own ideas of what" proficiency" means, rarely will they actually attain it.
Why “small” ? At this point I am just listening to his desires and trying not to make a judgment on them. Having said that, I appreciate the input and reasons for not getting a small frame/barrel revolver, and the suggested models.
All my life my father lifted weights and has always been fit, but you bring up an excellent point. On the last visit he had a hand condition and does not have full finger/grip motion on one hand. I need to follow up on that!
Thanks. I checked that out and it is an interesting possibility. Once I hear back about his hand grip/strength/range of motion, I will also find out what his budget is. If the price isn’t too high, I suspect he will like this particular suggestion.
I will still be checking out the other models suggested previously.
2nd the LCR in 38 w/laser grips I carry the same in a high noon holster owb and in 2 days time you can hardly tell it on your side, while the laser isn’t always accurate it will put the shot close enough and its easy to pick up with the eyes. As far as a problem with his hand and grip strength you can get some low power ammo that will still put a damper on someone’s day.
+1 LCR. Mine isn’t CTC equipped, but the ones I have shot with the laser were very accurate out to 10 yards. And laser or not, practice is required. Hope you can convince him to get out to the range with you every once in a while.
I have a CT LCR and have shot a stainless S&W 640 with the larger CT grips. Compared to the 640/CT, the LCR/CT is brutal with +P ammo as unlike the S&W models and standard Ruger grips, there isn’t a flexible recoil pocket. Just something to consider if he might be recoil sensitive. I suspect he is interested in a smaller gun b/c a lot of non-gun people feel that smaller guns are less serious.
You should try to talk your dad into wearing whatever he chooses concealed. This will give him some options that open carry will not. I favor surprise over deterrence in the scenario you pose.
Personally I agree with you. I also wouldn’t want the concern of worrying about someone trying to take it from me. I think he is viewing it from two aspects: (1) “If they see I have a gun they will leave me alone” (which is not necessarily true), and (2) “I don’t want to take the concealed carry permit class.”
If he is absolutely set on a small revolver then go with the biggest grip possible. I have a 442 that the recoil is a bit much with the concealed grip but with a larger hogue I can shoot it all day long. That way its easy to practice with and you aren’t concerned about concealment. However as many have said if its open carry why go small? Get a model 10 or 15 in a 4 inch and call it good.
Yes, for the S&W, the CT 304 and 405 both have a squishy recoil pocket that helps spread the recoil impact making it more comfortable to shoot. The 305 is better in this regard as it’s larger.
For the LCR, the CT laser is hard plastic so there is no give under recoil.
In addition, the 640 is heavier stainless steel so that helps with recoil as well.
Both of these are easy to conceal 5 shot guns. But your Dad isn’t looking to conceal so he would be better off with a larger easier to shoot revolver like a S&W model 10,13,64,65. They are in the mid 30-oz range and can sometimes be found with 2 and 3" barrels. CT offers laser grips for those as well. He could get a police trade in revolver for ~$300.
He has a 20 year old Ruger .357 with a 4 inch barrel (I don’t know which model), so I assume he feels that is too big. He probably thinks it is too conspicuous.
Yes, for the S&W, the CT 304 and 405 both have a squishy recoil pocket that helps spread the recoil impact making it more comfortable to shoot. The 305 is better in this regard as it’s larger.
For the LCR, the CT laser is hard plastic so there is no give under recoil.
In addition, the 640 is heavier stainless steel so that helps with recoil as well.
Both of these are easy to conceal 5 shot guns. But your Dad isn’t looking to conceal so he would be better off with a larger easier to shoot revolver like a S&W model 10,13,64,65. They are in the mid 30-oz range and can sometimes be found with 2 and 3" barrels. CT offers laser grips for those as well. He could get a police trade in revolver for ~$300.
Thanks for the clarification and additional details. Much appreciated.
You can get a small frame revolver with 6 rounds on board as opposed to 5 rounds. While not as powerful as a .357 Magnum the .327 is no slouch, I sure as hell wouldn’t want to get shot with one.