I hate loading shotguns under time crunches, not a skill I want to work on. How are the new 780 and 590 that have detachable mags looking? Anyone have experience with them? How would they be classified for 3-gun comps?
Open class unless they’ve recently changed the rules.
I’m kind of waiting for the answers to your other questions because I’d like to get a TAC-14DM just for grins and giggles.
Those TAC-14s at first glance to me what handguns are like for Brits- something is not quite right… Not really versed on shotguns so I never realized how those short barrel ones fit into the framework. Looks like an interesting- and jaring tool.
They should show a standard one of those next to the mag version. Below the standard a picture of a key and the words “Masterkey”, and under the mag version a bunch of keys on a ring and the words “Multiple-Masterkey”.
I overall like the Mossberg for the greater mag capacity, but crap gets heavy. I really don’t want more than 10 rounds, and that 6 is really probably the sweet spot. If you can reload fast, you need the super high cap. 20 rounds at 8 shots of 000…
I handled them at the NRA show, unloaded of course and thought to myself “I wonder how heavy these get loaded up?”.
Honestly, outside competition I just don’t see the advantage of a box fed pump shotgun. Rapid mag change capability is superfluous in my opinion. But maybe I am just old school as I was trained to transition to handgun once my pumpgun ran empty instead of fumbling with a reload.
I can see several things folks might see as advantages:
Ammo changeovers (buck to slug) could be done more quickly.
Someone could store their shotgun empty and have it loaded more quickly for home defense.
As far as transitioning after your shotgun runs empty, largely because getting the ammo (if you have any) and either tube loading one or two at a time is more time consuming. An extra magazine puts the magazine fed shotgun in the same class as an AR.
In a stand on your hind legs and deliver gunfight, it may be more efficient to transition to the sidearm than reload either a shotgun or an AR. Think back to the origins of the ‘New York Reload’ with revolvers.
But, if your behind cover, or on the move I’d rather stay with the long gun compared to the pistol.
Makes sense. If I was going to buy a new fighting shotgun I would go for the Tavor TS12. But it is comparatively more expensive.
These are new to me, but I’d lean to the Mossberg for the higher mag cap as well. I think going the double stack was a good idea, a little bulky but better than some of those mono-pod Saiga mags you see.
I can think of a couple of scenarios were a fella might find 20 (+1) rounds of Brenneke slugs quit convenient, and they don’t all involve xenomorphs.
On the plus side, the weight stays in the receiver area and not further forward like the higher capacity mag tubes.
Not much of a plus. Twenty 3" OO Buck weigh 3 pounds even. For any practical purpose the long vertical magazine is a liability IMO.
I think the 10 rounders are going to be the happy spot. Maybe 15
I think the 20 round magazine is impractical. The five and ten rounders are where I’d think most would find maximum utility. Keep the weight on the belt, or chest rig.
I doubt if most folks are going to want to shoot a bunch of full bore 3" OOB.
I agree but that was what I had to weigh without going to the safe. Remember I said practical, A battle that takes place in your bedroom isn’t going to take more than 6 rounds to complete. I’ll keep mine in an extended tube over a box magazine.
I would agree with the bedroom/HD scenario. As of yet I have not read any long term reliability testing, but I haven’t really been looking.
I think the 15 rounders will be, all my 590’s have a 9 round capacity as they are so the 10’s meh.
Be interesting to see if these take off among the competition crowd.
I found the Mossberg to be superior when I compared it to the Remington at SHOT shot. Just felt better, looked better, and seemed more like a design then a retro fit. The Mossberg is also double stack.
Remington is playing catch up to Mossberg. Mossberg was first to get with the BATFE and got approval for the Shockwave and Remington (as well as others) have followed them. Now with the mag fed pump guns as well.
While some people have said that a box magazine shotgun is a hammer looking for a nail, in actual practice it solves a lot of problems, and the biggest single advantage to using a shotgun in a gunfight is that the nail stays hammered.
Training shooters to transition to a pistol in the middle of a shotgun fight would be like telling cruise ship passengers to take to lifeboats in the middle of the ocean if an iceberg has been sighted two days away. Stay with the long gun in a long gun fight.
We are not talking about 3-gun competitors here; we are talking about real life, where running around leaving a cover position with ten pounds of shell holders dangling all over your shotgun like some stupid tactical Christmas tree, is just going to get you killed (or eaten.) Quite frankly, if the problem is not solved with six rounds, it is not likely going to be solved at all with the level of the threat or your level of training.
I have shot both the Mossberg and the Remington. I have thousands of rounds through two 870 DM shotguns, and I can say for certain - the 870 DM is the highest quality shotgun I have seen coming out of the Remington factory in literally decades. (I have been in this business for a long time.) The difference in weight between the tube-fed and the box-fed Remington is negligible; the difference in reliability is night and day. I have tested every single extension tube, mag spring and follower and have NEVER found a combination that was 100% reliable when shooting very fast. The two-piece magazine tube will usually hang up slightly with the second or third round out of the shotgun, resulting in a failure to feed and a resounding ‘click.’ Thankfully, very few people in the world rack the pump so fast that they will experience that, but the whole tube feeding thing is archaic, problematic and just plain slow to bring into action if you are forced to start with an empty shotgun.
My mags are color-coded, and I can switch from slugs to buckshot to bearbangers in seconds, and I don’t need to fill my pockets with spare shells or dangle a bunch of crap all over my shotgun. The Remington mag fits nicely in a AR10 pouch or even the back pocket of my jeans.
The Mossberg on the other hand is bulky, clunky and, well … just plain fugly. Life is too short to own ugly shotguns. The five round Mossberg mag is too small; the ten round is too frigging big and you would need to drag a cart behind your shotgun to store extra 20-round mags.
If anyone insists on the feel of a Mossberg 590 over a Remington 870, they should just buy an 870 and dump sand in the action.
Trust me; the six-round Remington magazine is a perfect size and a perfect capacity. It does NOT get in the way (like I initially thought it was going to do) and makes for a very clean shotgun, an easy reload and a compact way to store another 12 rounds in two pants or shirt pockets while hiking the tundra in bear country.
I am a traditionalist. I didn’t think I would like the DM as much as I did. I now have two. One with an Urbino stock and a 14-inch police barrel, and the other with nicely oiled wood stock and nickel-coated finish.
I have been thinking about picking one up. I was skeptical of the concept, but I have to say Remington’s video on the shotgun did a great job of making me want one. It’s good to hear some positive feedback on it.