Took my 870 police out this weekend- it has been a while since i have been shooting with it. I took a number of 3 inch loads and heavy 2 3/4 inch loads. I have not had formal shotgun training but am looking forward to it in the future.
After firing some shells, I noticed that sometimes I “rode the pump back.” Sometimes I did not ride the pump back fully, and I would fail to eject the spent shell. I found that when I purposely held the pump forward during shooting, I felt that I had greater control over the weapon in the pumping phase, but was reticent to put too much pressure on the action bars. (Is that a problem?)
have a Knoxx stock, and that absorbs recoil well. I enjoy the platform, but would appreciate advice on how you all find the most trouble free operation of your 870. I think I will stick to lower recoil/LE loads in the future. I dont remember having these problems with lower recoil loabs.
Honestly, i have no idea what you’re trying to explain. My advice would be, dont baby it. Work the slide like you mean it, on the ejection stroke and load stroke. I’ve found (in my limited pump shotgun use) that if you rack the slide hard, you wont short stroke it.
What does “rode the pump back” mean? Does that mean the recoil of the shot made your hand start the pump motion?
That’s right. Excuse my lack of proper terminology.
I havent noticed it on lighter loads, but definitely on the heavier ones. I found that while shooting if I kept the pump forward Id have more “control” over the gun but wasnt sure if I should move the pump itself back during the recoil phase.
Manny - "I found that when I purposely held the pump forward during shooting, I felt that I had greater control over the weapon in the pumping phase, but was reticent to put too much pressure on the action bars. (Is that a problem?)
I can’t speak to an 870 but I have put a Lot (thousands) of 12 g. thru a Mossberg 500. I can’t imagine that a 870 is less robust than a 500 and I can tell you I never had problem with the action bars. Rack that thing forward and back like you mean it - hold it forward, cycle it back briskly and get the feel so it becomes ingrained.
When it comes to any pump action shotgun, the SOP is to “rack it like you have a pair.” Otherwise (as you found out) the shotgun will jam. I am sure an 870 can take it or it wouldn’t be where it is today.
Like others have said, be a little aggressive and it should work fine. If these firearms couldn’t handle it they wouldn’t have the popularity they earned.
This is what I was getting at. I was finding that the recoil of the 3 inch shells I was shooting did cause me to ride the pump and short cycle.
So during the recoil of the actual shot, my left hand will be with the pump forward and only after I feel the recoil finish will I aggressively work the action to the rear. I can still get off about 1 shot per second this way.
I am exerting a rearward pull on the pump when I come on target, so when the gun fires I’m already on the opening stroke as soon as the hammer drops. I can shoot my 870P so fast you’d think you were listening to an 1100, and I’m not fast compared to a few guys I know. Try pulling the gun back into your shoulder with BOTH hands instead of pushing it forward with your left (how’d you get to doing that anyway?)
Ok I get it. that makes alot of sense. It probably sounds ridiculous, but pulled the pistol grip of the gun towards myself and pushed the pump forward at the same time as I felt it would keep me on target better and I wouldnt short shuck the action. Your way makes a lot more sense.
Try it- you will feel like you were moving in Super Slo-Mo before, plus you will have more control over the gun. If you’re doing it right, you’re using the forward stroke on the pump to pull the gun back down onto target. Just remember to reestablish your rearward pull as soon as the forend locks. Slam that bitch forward, don’t baby it.
Let us know how it works.
ETA: another way to tell you’re doing it right is that you don’t really even hear the rearward stroke. You’re hearing something like BOOM…rack-rack…BOOM now, right? If you’re executing this technique correctly and at the right speed, you should hear BOOMrack BOOMrack with ‘rack’ being the closing stroke. The first part of the stroke happens while the blast is still fading. When you get really fast, you damn near don’t hear the closing stroke either.
Manny - I noticed you said you have a SpecOps stock. If you are locking your left arm you are prevent the stock from working as it has to cam back. You are fighting it and can cause a serious malfuction. the cam spring hooks over the receiver pin. When you fight the stock and cause a jumping action that spring can jump the receiver pin and the stock is FUBAR as it can not be repaired and has to go back.
The left arm has to be loose and a light grip on the forend and you have to ride back with the weapon. This causes the breech bolt to open as the weapon comes back. When you learn to follower this motion to the rear, not fight stock and complete the action in an authoritative manner you will benfit from this stock. As you are currently using it you are defeating the ability of the stock to reduce felft recoil and are not benifiting from the stock. You are also at risk of a failure of the stock and having to send it back. Black Hawk is not going to replace it so you are simply out a stock.
Rob Haught teaches a push pull method, where you push on the forearm and pull with the dominant hand, and is reputed to substantially reduce felt recoil with slugs and heavy loads. Google around.
Hm. I see that being better for recoil control, but not as fast as the method I cited for getting a fresh round up the pipe.
Disclaimer: I’ll argue rifle or pistol techniques til we’re both blue in the face, but that’s because I know about that. I’m not a professional shotgunner, though I can use one.
Riding the action is more a term for semi-automatics and automatics where instead of releasing the slide or charging handle and letting the gun put itself into battery you “ease” the slide or charging handle forward and it ends up not going into battery because you slowed the bolt down to a point it doesn’t have the momentum to do everything as meant.
If there is problems with he shotgun not chambering or ejecting properly it is for the same reasons an auto-loader goofs when riding the action, not enough momentum/force. The fix is racking it like you mean it and don’t baby it as it can handle the abuse that or its not a serious gun.
As for putting forward, neutral, or rearward pressure on the slide when its locked forward. Forward you of course support the weight of the front end, create some extra stability since your actively putting tension on the system, and it helps mitigate recoil some by holding it forward some. Neutral is pretty much just support the weight of the shotgun. Rearward helps hold the shotgun into the body to fight recoil, supports shotguns weight of course, increased stability, and has the bonus that when you fire your all ready pulling the slide back and when you get good at it you will “automatically” eject the spent shell and be ready to feed the next. At least from my observations.