Rem.870 First Time Buyer- Help and Opinions Please

General Firearms Shotguns
1

So, pretty much what the title says- in the process of looking for a shotgun, and have decided on the 870.

However, it seems that I know enough to be dangerous to my wallet, but not make a well informed decision…:haha:
I did find a few helpful topics, but frankly, it’s still a google search…anything with a single word in it comes up.

So here goes:

Right now I’m looking into this (Remington 870 Exp. Synthetic 18" with mag extension.):
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/95077-55.html
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-synthetic-7-round.aspx

This seems like it will fit the bill for what I want in a shotgun the best-
Simple, compact, extra mag capacity, ability to shoot both 2 3/4 and 3 in. shells, can accept a sling. Right now, I’m not looking to go crazy with any modifications (aside from maybe a shell holder), so it’s likely to stay as-is for a long time.
However there’s still a couple things I’m not sure of-

>CtD says “3 in. chamber” and Rem’s site says “magazine capacity is six 2 3/4” or 3" shells "- So it CAN accept both sizes, right…?
Just wanted to double check- a shotgun I currently have says “chambered for 2 1/2 and 3 in. shells” on the barrel, and I was under the impression that it should say if it was capable of both… Sadly none of the gun shops by me have any 870s in stock so I have not been able to check for myself- all I’m seeing online is “3 in. chamber”.

>Apparently it’s not legal to hunt with an 18" barrel… While this is not the intended use of the shotgun, I do have a couple buddies that hunt quite a bit. In the event I decide to join in, would it be practical to buy a second barrel (coupled with a round limiter of course) for this? Or would it just be a hassle?

>On the Remington site, it says the barrel is a fixed cylinder choke- I’m assuming this means a cylinder bore choke (i.e. none). In this case it would be impossible to change the choke type, right?
If so, is this going to destroy the ability to hit anything with a decent group beyond 20 yds? I’m not sure I want something that’s good only at point blank ranges…
Plus I’m kind of used to looking at rifle groupings…:o
What I’m thinking from:http://www.shotgunworks.com/content.aspx?
ckey=Shotgun_Choke_Types
And what is “Remchoke”? I noticed this on Remington’s standard 870 Exp. page, where they say it’s “offered with your choice of a 26- or 28-inch vent-rib barrel with a Modified Rem Choke…”. But I’ve used the standard 870 Exp. before and the barrel doesn’t have a choke tube sticking out the muzzle…:confused: So I’m assuming this is some proprietary fixed design?

>Mounting a sling- I definately want to do this. What would be a good brand for attachment studs compatible with those included on the gun?
Or are the included mounting points even worth using?

So now that you all know I’m a total shotgun noob, your thoughts?

2

If this shotgun is to be relied upon for self preservation then I’d spend a couple of hundred more dollars and get an 870 Police Magnum.

Here is what Hans Vang has to say about the 870 Express vs. the 870 Police Magnum.

The Remington Police Magnum shotgun is built heavier to withstand the abuse and pounding that police departments inflict on their gear. It has a metal trigger assembly versus the Express’s plastic assembly. The Police Magnum also has heavier springs (7 lb. sear disconnect spring versus’s the Express’s 5 lb. disconnect spring). The Police Magnum has a 22 inch magazine spring versus a 16 inch magazine spring in the Express. The Police gun comes with a heavier lifter spring. Each Police Magnum comes with front and rear sling swivel studs. These are just some of the differences in the two guns. Remember, you get exactly what you pay for. Both models function the same and digest the same ammo, so if you are inclined to inflict this type of punishment on your guns then consider a Police Magnum. Otherwise the Express model will serve you very well.

3

I second the Police version. An 18" Police with wood furniture and a two round factory mag extention will run you right in the $500 range and is a first rate gun. The Express will do the job, but the Police is built to a higher standard, and the fit and finish are far superior to the Express line. If you do intend for dual roles for the gun, a cheap bead sighted barrel can be had fairly easily.

4

Yes, It will accept both sizes.

Yes, it would be practical, in my opinion, to buy another barrel, if you are comfortable using and want to use a shotgun to hunt. My son uses a decrepid Mav. 88 with rifled slugs to hunt and does pretty well with it. Plus, you can get a rifled barrel and have three guns in one. A shotgun slug at the right range will take down elk.

With the better rifled slugs, 50 yd shots and further are a piece of cake. Rifled slugs work fine with improved cylinder or cylinder bore chokes. If it is fixed, it is one less thing to worry about, but you cannot put a tighter choke in it. Weigh the options to determine if you need adjustable chokes. I rarely find the need to change out my cylinder bore choke (my preference for rifled slugs) because when I shoot skeet, I either use 4 or 6.5 shot. Sabots with a rifled barrel are good for 100yds or more.

The choke tube you were looking at may have been the tactical choke.

Slings…? Better wait for a Rem. expert on that one. I am a noob too on a lot of things, plus I never accessorize. How ya gonna learn if ya don’t ask. If I never asked a question, I would probably still be shooting a Red Ryder.

Happy shooting.

5

Before you buy be sure and go to AI&P Tactical’s site and read up on the 870 line of shotguns and see what J.D. McGuire has to say. There is a lot of good information there and he offers everything from complete guns to upgrades on new or used guns, at very reasonable prices. His site will help you understand the differences in the various models and grades of 870. It will also help you understand exactly what you need, and whether you need to buy a complete gun or can do some of the upgrades yourself. He even has some videos that show just how easy it is to change out the most important and common parts to ensure your gun is more reliable and how to make a field gun more like a duty gun. Good luck.

http://www.aiptactical.com

6

>CtD says “3 in. chamber” and Rem’s site says “magazine capacity is six 2 3/4” or 3" shells "- So it CAN accept both sizes, right…?
Just wanted to double check- a shotgun I currently have says “chambered for 2 1/2 and 3 in. shells” on the barrel, and I was under the impression that it should say if it was capable of both… Sadly none of the gun shops by me have any 870s in stock so I have not been able to check for myself- all I’m seeing online is “3 in. chamber”.

All 3" shotguns on the market today will run 3" or 2 3/4" shells no problem. Note, however, that loading 3" shells in the magazine tube MAY reduce capacity (depends on tube, spring, and follower).

>Apparently it’s not legal to hunt with an 18" barrel… While this is not the intended use of the shotgun, I do have a couple buddies that hunt quite a bit. In the event I decide to join in, would it be practical to buy a second barrel (coupled with a round limiter of course) for this? Or would it just be a hassle?

870 barrels are cheap and widely available, and so easy to change-out a trained monkey could do it. You’d be looking at paying an extra $100-$150 (depending on exactly what you wanted) for a second barrel.

>On the Remington site, it says the barrel is a fixed cylinder choke- I’m assuming this means a cylinder bore choke (i.e. none). In this case it would be impossible to change the choke type, right?

Correct, a fixed choke is just that - fixed. It MAY be possible to have your barrel threaded for interchangeable choke tubes by an outfit like Vang Comp at a later date, depending on the thickness of the barrel (contact who you would want to have do the job to be sure). And yes “Cylinder” means “Cylinder Bore”, i.e. no choke.

If so, is this going to destroy the ability to hit anything with a decent group beyond 20 yds? I’m not sure I want something that’s good only at point blank ranges…
Plus I’m kind of used to looking at rifle groupings…

Using normal buck/bird shot loads, your groups at 20 yards from a cylinder bore barrel are going to get pretty wide (much more so than I personally consider acceptable), thankfully there’s a way around that. Meet Federal Flite Control ammunition.

And what is “Remchoke”? I noticed this on Remington’s standard 870 Exp. page, where they say it’s “offered with your choice of a 26- or 28-inch vent-rib barrel with a Modified Rem Choke…”.

Remchoke is just Remington’s marketing buzzword for their interchangeable choke system. It is NOT fixed.

But I’ve used the standard 870 Exp. before and the barrel doesn’t have a choke tube sticking out the muzzle… So I’m assuming this is some proprietary fixed design?

While some extra-full chokes and speciality competition chokes stick out past the muzzle (and can even be tightened by hand), most interchangeable choke tubes run flush with the muzzle and are tightened by a wrench. The 870 Express you used almost certainly had an interchangeable choke in it (probably a Modified, the choke that normal field 870s ship with).

To make this a little clearer for you, I snapped some photos of my field barrel and chokes with my cell phone camera:

Choke Tubes (Skeet, Modified, Full) with Remington Choke Tube Wrench

Muzzle of barrel with Imp. Cyl choke installed

Choke Tube being partially removed

Barrel WITHOUT Choke Tube installed. Never fire an interchangeable choke tube gun without a choke tube installed or you will damage the threads.

>Mounting a sling- I definately want to do this. What would be a good brand for attachment studs compatible with those included on the gun?
Or are the included mounting points even worth using?

I’m not really a sling guy, so someone else will have to help you with this.

7

Forgot to address the sling. I use the same Magpul MS2 that I use for my carbine. I run a mesa tactical single point HK style loop mount which bolts up directly to either the rear trigger group pin, or in my case the mesa tactical shell holder. Easy to install, easy to remove, you don’t have to take off the stock like some other units, and I can run the same sling system on both carbine and shotgun.

8

I second the police magnum but you will quickly find spare bbls can be very expensive. I have an 870 express it is a turkey gun with a 21" bbl. I have a 28" bbl and a rifled bbl. Too.pm me if your interested in a spare bbl. The police gun will not have rem chokes. I would get an IC or Mod if possible on a fixed bbl. I don’t care for cylinder.

9

I too have the Police version… if you look around you will probably find some used ones that various Police Depts have traded in for sale…

-Tom

10

Police trade ins can be a great buy.

11

If you do buy a 870P, buy used.

Buying a NIB 870P is a waste of money.

The 870P has 2 internal parts that differ from 870Es with extended magazines. The heavy carrier dog return spring, and milled extractor cost maybe $15, and take 5 minutes to replace.

Everything else is completely aesthetic upgrades on the 870P. Which is perfectly fine, but I personally don’t think its worth a extra $200-$300.

In before someone posts the outdated as hell “870P vs 870E” list.

12

Thanks ChicagoTex- good info and pix. Yes, the 870 Exp. I used did have the choke installed- I just thought it was part of the barrel.:laugh:

What does he mean by “trigger assembly”?
Because I noticed on the AIP site posted here, about the shotguns they build:

“All are built on new Remington 870 magnum receivers. We bead blast them and parkerize them. We upgrade the trigger groups and bolt. the bolt on the Express model and the blot on the P model are the exact same bolt, same matte finish and all the same parts except for the extractor. I change the extractor to the solid steel one that comes on the P model and thus a P model bolt. The trigger groups are on a polymer housing or you can upgrade to cast but all have the same internal parts. I have found the polymer to be completely durable and stays cleaner internally. I have the polymer housing on all of my weapons as do all my employees.”

:confused:

Ok, so next noob question- if I have a slug barrel installed I can run both shot and slugs. But sabots would really need a full rifled barrel.
Yes?

Checked it out extensively. Very nice looking stuff.:cool:
I like that I can get one with an improved choke- not perfect, but probably still better than a cylinder bore… Plus if I ever wanted/needed to get my shotgun refinished it would cost about the same anyway.
The question is now simply whether or not I can exceed my previous budget…:frowning:

Which was my other thought- play cut’n paste with an 870 Exp.

As far as used goes, I found these the other day: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=203609567
Worth it? Looks pretty good overall- trigger guard is pretty dinged up.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=203276756
A bit pricey? (At this point I’d almost rather dish out $100 more and get what I want…)
But then with either of these I guess we’re still looking at a cylinder choke…

13

The trigger assembly is just that, an assembly of the fire control group. Instead of having to install all the fire control parts individually one can simply remove a couple of pins and “plug and play” a new trigger assembly.

I have no knowledge of the trigger upgrades that AIP perform.

14

As for slings the best to date IMHO is a Vickers CAS with BFG 870 stock adaptor and a GG&G front sling atachment.

http://www.blueforcegear.com/products/Vickers-Combat-Applications-Sling™.html

http://www.blueforcegear.com/products/A1{47}A2-Buttstock-Adapter.html

http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?id=78&parents=153,172

15

Ok, so next noob question- if I have a slug barrel installed I can run both shot and slugs. But sabots would really need a full rifled barrel.
Yes?

There’s no such thing as a “slug barrel”. There are smoothbore barrels and rifled barrels. Smoothbore barrels can fire buck/birdshot effectively and also fire most non-sabot slugs provided the choke on the gun is Modified or looser (I’m told there are a very few slugs that require Imp Cyl. or looser, but I’ve never seen them).
Rifled barrels are designed to do exactly one thing: fire saboted slugs.

Which was my other thought- play cut’n paste with an 870 Exp.

That’s what I’ve got. No complaints here. Probably would’ve been easier to start with a used police, but I already had an 870 Express with a police trigger assembly and police extractor that had proven itself, but I was too lazy and sentimental to start over again.

Worth it? Looks pretty good overall- trigger guard is pretty dinged up.

If I had the spare cash right now I’d grab it. External dings really don’t matter.

But then with either of these I guess we’re still looking at a cylinder choke…

Again. Federal Flite Control. I’d run it in a Modified, I run it in an Improved Cylinder, I’d run it in a Cylinder Bore - it makes choke almost irrelavent.

16

In answering your noob question, most shotgun barrels will run shot and rifled slugs. A common 870 cylinder (smooth)bore barrel with interchangable choke tubes will shoot shot and rifled slugs. Remember, in my opinion, improved cylinder is the tightest I would go with rifled slugs. Sabots (like the Accutip) are for rifled barrels. They are mad accurate and will take down almost any game in the US. I believe they make a slug that is not a sabot for a rifled barrel, but I would stay away from that. All it will do is dick up your barrel with lead and wear it out prematurely. I wouldn’t use steel shot unless you are going to eat any fowl you shoot. Steel is not as forgiving in the choke as lead is (the lead actually crushes a bit going through the choke and will give a tighter pattern) and a tighter choke will make the steel shoot large patterns because it has no give and gets “bounced” off the choke. This is another matter altogether, lets leave it at the lead shot.

17

The trigger assembly is just that, an assembly of the fire control group. Instead of having to install all the fire control parts individually one can simply remove a couple of pins and “plug and play” a new trigger assembly.

If I wanted to go this route, where would I find an assembly, and how much do they usually run?

In answering your noob question, most shotgun barrels will run shot and rifled slugs. A common 870 cylinder bore barrel with interchangable choke tubes will shoot shot and rifled slugs. Remember, in my opinion, improved cylinder is the tightest I would go with rifled slugs. Sabots (like the Accutip) are for rifled barrels… I wouldn’t use steel shot unless you are going to eat any fowl you shoot. Steel is not as forgiving in the choke as lead is (the lead actually crushes a bit going through the choke and will give a tighter pattern) and a tighter choke will make the steel shoot large patterns because it has no give and gets “bounced” off the choke. This is another matter altogether, lets leave it at the lead shot.

Got it. Not going to worry about sabots unless I change the barrel out for (legal) hunting. On the same note, with the 18", I suppose I’ll mostly be using lead anyway.

18

The Police trigger assembly is right shy of $95 at Brownells.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=26466/Product/TRIGGER_PLATE_ASSEMBLY__POLICE__PARKERIZED

19

If you shoot straight cylinder bore which a police barrel most likely will be, steel is fine. Steel will penetrate better as it does not crush as much (none against flesh) against clothing. Against armor, steel and lead both will knock the crap out of you if there is no penetration.

20

Thanks M-K.:slight_smile:

Well, I guess I should have clarified better- with mostly using lead, I was referring to practice/training with whatever I can get for cheap. Plus I can’t hunt with an 18"anyway, so unless it’s some special defensive load, I probably won’t be using steel.