Reliability issues G19/26

I’m a retired NYC Police Officer and while I never assigned to the Firearms and Tactics Section I did have much time to interact with those assigned there and was able to glean much info from them.
The first issue was with the G19 than turned out to be a very problematic pistol in regards to Phase Three malfunctions and other ejection/feeding issues. I personally know three officers that have had malfunctions while engaged in gun fights using the G19.
When I was qualifying it was very common to see G19 up and down the line that were suffering repeated failures to extract and feed,while officers with the 5946 and the P226 were having no issues.
Here are some links that document the G19 issues.
http://thegunzone.com/glock/phase3.html
http://thegunzone.com/glock/phase3a.html
http://thegunzone.com/glock/upgrade-faq.html

The second issue was with the G26
My personal G26 would suffer repeated bullet nose stuck on the feed ramp using Speer 124 GD +p. A simple mag tap would release the round and the round would chamber. This problem would occur when the mag was properly seated in the pistol.
When I discussed the issue with range officer that was also involved with the T/E authorization G26 program,he had some interesting inside information. Basically he stated that the G26 failed NYPDs durability and reliability tests and was rejected for off-duty authorization. But a Chief that was in bed with Glock override the rejection and had the pistol authorized anyway.
Can anyone add or detract any known issues with the G19/26 ?

I worked at a firearms training facility 2005-2007 that vetted dept of state personnel to go overseas, They use Glocks exclusively G19/G17 with Federal hydra shocks and FMJ ball ammo. I have seen and shot thousands and thousands of rounds from the G19/17 and have not seen the issues that are described in the articles from 1996.
I personally own and carry the 26/19/17 as stock pistols with night sights and the 4.5 pound trigger.
I have seen malfunctions due to poor ammunition, light strikes/bad primer, limp wrist shooter induced and failure to seat the mag properly.

May I ask how long ago your experiences were?

The Glock issues were known and worked through at the time. Is there anything to lead everyone to believe this is still a prevalent issue?

Reconfiguration of portions of the barrel/breech on the G19 to the best of my knowledge successfully resolved the Phase Three malfunctions years ago.

Best, Jon

sjc,
i work at rodmens for the past 10 yrs. and while not assigned to FTS i still have my hand in live fire training and other things. i have not heard or seen any issues with either the 19 or 26 in the last 6-7 years. i know alot of MOS mags were updated with #5 or 6 followers and new mag springs. also it appears that the gold dot projectile has been tweaked a few times in the last few years. don’t know if that has anything ti do with it, but i have not seen any isuues at all in either 19 or 26. when we do find a problem it turns out to be the mags(wether they be old,worn out or what ever) once addressed the issues go away. mind you the live fire i’m in involved in are high rounds counts(by NYPD standards) so the guns get alittle more work than they do during normal quals. i hope this helps.

A couple of things:

I understand the phase 3 malfunction occurred with NYPD predominantly. Outside of NYPD I rarely have heard of this type, or any other type of major malfunctions with the G19.

I would submit that a lot of the malfunctions you id’d or heard about have more to do with the human factor than not. Sadly times have changed and many police officers, especially ones in urban settings are not really gun people. Meaning many may not be interested or inclined to incorporate proper grip with their chosen weapons. I’m not saying NYPD’s firearms training is bad, I’ll bet they have some of the best. I’m saying that though you may have lots of great police officers, perhaps their gun handling leaves something to be desired.

Why do I say this, well I used to work for a county sheriffs office in Massachusetts, and many of my fellow officers were not gun people, though their training was good, their qualification scores were okay. BTW we used Glock 17’s and 19’s at the time, w/G26’s as back up. NEVER a malfunction, now granted we were much smaller than NYPD, (but who isn’t).

Worked for a Police Union in Massachusetts, that represented police officers nationwide. Talked to lot’s of police officers. Officers from the South and the the West tended to lean more towards being gun people. In the Northeast, not nearly as much.

That being said I work part time as an instructor at a gun club in Dallas. Seen many a Dallas Police Officer come in over the last 10 years, using some “interesting” grips and stances, with equally “interesting” results.

At the same range we get thousands of people each year coming in to take the concealed handgun class. We have them shoot our G17 and G19 rental guns for qualification. Thousands of rounds through the guns, and the only time we have a malfunctions is when we have inexperienced shooters not gripping them properly. I teach private students, and in the years I’ve done it, I’ve never had a malfunction with any Glock 9mm the student used.

Some anecdotal NYPD “evidence.” The G19 is the single most popular gun issued to NYPD, with nearly 70 - 75% of your officers choosing it. Whether a chief was “in bed” with Glock or not, no one is forcing officers to choose a G19. They have the option of using a Sig P226, or a Smith 5906. A friend of mine is a Sergeant with the NYPD, he calls his S&W a “heater”, (unprofessional). When he joined 14 years ago I was really into Sig Sauers. So I was miffed that he didn’t go with the P226. When asked why he didn’t, it was because they were too expensive and they had major rust issues. Something I noticed from this and working with the police union, is that when an agency was not happy with some aspect, (usually the cost), of its equipment from a particular vendor there was an “issue” with the equipment, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the some of the rust issues with the Sigs, or some of the phase 3 malfunctions were not more of an attempt by the powers that be from the NYPD to secure better pricing from said vendors. I’m not saying these issue didn’t exist, I’m just suggesting that certain elements of the NYPD sought to make molehills into mountains in an attempt to capitalize fiscally. NYPD is a HUGE client for a firearms company to have. Don’t think for a moment that if a few members of the department, start complaining about “rust issues” with Sigs or a malfunction that seems to only affect Glock 19’s sent to NYPD, that those manufacturers aren’t gonna do everything they can to remedy these issues, real or perceived. And don’t think that the powers that be with the NYPD didn’t notice that.
YMMV.

Best,

Dave

The related issues that Ive seen are from 1995 to 2002. I retired in 2002.
Being that Im in NY there are alot of NFML mags around. I have seen alot of bullet nose stuck on the feed ramp with the Speer GD 124. Ive never had a issue with my 5946,3913 or my 92f. My G17 has been a great pistol but did suffer a nose stuck on a feed ramp isssue once.
My personal observations with the second generation G19 have been less than stellar, and Glocks denial of the issue is scary.
I wonder if Im creating a perfect storm with my stash of 1999 Speer GD and NFML mags. I did notice that my newer FML mags feed the rounds with less of a bullet nose dip and I have not had any issues.
Thanks for the replies.
Steve

Those rusting issues were very real with the P226. I saw it first hand. I suspect that NYPD just got a bad batch of guns. When you order 2000 pistols and they come from a bad finishing run the problem appears huge, when in fact it is small issue just magnified by a large order with a defective finishing issue.

The NYPD must have received a bad load of guns. I work for the CPD,have carried a 226 for at least five or six years and have not experienced any rust problems.

Could it have something to do with the NYC number 2 trigger, or whatever the super heavy 12 or 13 lb trigger they are putting in the glock, retarding something or other or the different parts causing a drag somewhere?

I have never heard of these malfunctions outside of the NYPD.

It doesn’t make sense to me, but that is the main difference I see in the NYPD Glocks.

I’ve put a lot of rounds through 9 mm Glocks over the years and have carried a G19 for over 15 years–the only problems we have seen were from insipid utterly unreliable 10 rd ban compliant magazines and from a bad lot of ammo where the OAL was excessive resulting in numerous feeding problems.

We issue the Glock 17 here for the most part, although we also issue the G19 to a lesser extent, and the G26 is our most popular off-duty and BUG.

We also issue the 124gr +P Gold Dot, and have since well before we started carrying Glocks.

I used to run our range program here, with 350 shooters, give or take.

I have never seen a malf with the Gold Dot, either on the range or on the street. I have seen hundreds of thousands of rounds through our guns in various quals and drills, with very, very few stoppages occurring, most of which have been QC issues with the FMJ training ammo (oversized case, case mouth folded over, etc.).

While I know NYPD had the phase III jam issues, I have never personally seen one, and since that time the only guns that I know have had the same issue have been Glock .40s

If I were you, and I was worried about it, I’d find a way to trade the Gold Dot for other ammo.

i can make a gold dot +P hollow point hang up on the feed ramp of my glock 26 only when manually racking and riding slide home.
Happened a couple of times…but never while firing

why would you do this?

I think so. I followed this pretty closely when it was a hot topic and I thought the best thinking on it pointed to the absurd spring setups. I’ve no idea how this ever go resolved. And could barely care less based on so much 1st hand experience with them.

BTW, the OP . . . what’s the point? A casual perusing of anything would reveal nothing like this has been seen before or since.

I purchased my first Glock19 from a pawn shop outside of Ft. Benning in 1990. I fired several hundreds of rounds through it and never had a problem.

I currently have and carry G22 and G19. The G19 has had a number of rounds through it, to include suppressed. I have never had a malfunction with it yet.

My G22 only has slide lock issues when using a light. Aside from that it also works 100%.

The G19’s we had in Iraq were at least 3 years old when I arrived there and they had thousands of rounds through them with very little operator maintenance. I can count all of the issues I saw on one hand.

I’ve carried either a G22/27, G17/26 for years, I’ve put thousands of rounds through them, tens of thousands really, never an issue that wasn’t quickly resolved down to operator, or ammunition failure.

Its been a while, but if memory serves, didn’t a big issue with this so-called phase three malfunction revolved around the factories(Glock)inability to reproduce it?

I have three 2nd Gen G19’s,one of them has the old 90 degree extractor cut. I’ve honestly never experienced a problem with any of them and they get run hard,and stay dirty most of the time.
I shoot these almost to the exclusion of anything else and carry one or the other daily. The wife uses a 2.5 Gen G26. It doesn’t get shot as much but never a problem in the 12 years we’ve had it.

It has happened by accident for the most part, when chambering a round which is usually gold dot or Federal Hp’s before holstering
I noticed that if i did not rack slide with force the round would not fully chamber and hang up on the ramp.

An updated locking block will remedy that. Newer design limits the frame flex. If you weren’t already aware.