I have a friend (I seriously do) who is planning on registering his new Nodak AK receiver, getting it engraved and sending it off to some AK builder. This builder is not a Class 3 dealer and does not pay an SOT. This guy says as long as it’s registered beforehand, he can work on the firearm (essentially building the entire friggin’ thing) without getting into trouble.
It seems to me a loophole like this would be possible using definitions of what is or isn’t a “gun” or “firearm” but I’m sure this would have been taken care of a long time ago.
I seem to remember hearing this is possible but I’ve also heard that if I were to have a 16" AK and then register it as an SBR, take it to a shop to get the barrel cut and the guy wasn’t an SOT or C3, I’d have to physically be there while he cut it or he would then be in violation of the law.
What’s the story? What are Mike’s options? He has a parts kit and a receiver, nothing is registered yet and he hasn’t sent anything to anyone yet.
That’s what I thought. I know you can receive a receiver and then send it out for a build because it has already been transferred but I didn’t think it worked that way for title 2 stuff.
I guess it would depend on what you consider repair? I don’t know that sending him a parts kit and receiver to assemble would be a repair. If it were my business and license on the line I don’t think I would take a gamble at getting the ATF to define it in my favor.
(I5) May a licensed gunsmith receive an NFA firearm for purposes of repair? [Back]
Yes, for the sole purpose of repair and subsequent return to its owner. It is suggested that the owner obtain permission from ATF for the transfer by completing and mailing ATF Form 5 to the NFA Branch and receive approval prior to the delivery. The gunsmith should do the same prior to returning the firearm.
Only the face of the form needs to be completed in each instance. ATF Forms 5 may be obtained from the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch. ATF Form 5 is also available on the internet at www.atf.gov
Thanks but I think that is irrelevant considering that probably has to do with non-NFA/Title II firearms.
I’m pretty sure I’ll have to tell Mike no and that the clown that says he can do the build for him needs to stop before he ends up in prison. He swears he has done several Krinks…
We are discussing whether or not he is actually manufacturing anything. Once the receiver is registered via a Form1 (form for MANUFACTURING a title II firearm) it might be ok to add whatever you want to it- even a complete parts kit.
I typed a long response based on a conversation I had with the ATFE. I deleted all that. Let me just say that the above situation is not legal for a couple of reasons.
OK so nothing that I can quote, just thinking out loud here. The main reason that I can think of is that being and FFL does not allow one to be in possession of a class III weapon, since the FFL is not a class III dealer or SOT. It’s just like giving your FFL dealer possession of your class III weapon. Which I’m guessing, in the eyes of the BATFE, is no different than you giving me possesion of it.
And that is the crux of the problem. If he doesn’t assemble it, he’s not the manufacturer. The ATF says a not SOT can repair NFA items and this would clearly be more than repairing since it was never assembled.
A receiver is the portion in most cases that is required to have a serial number. It is not however a functional firearm. So If a dealer orders 10 receivers and then puts barrels on them etc… he is manufacturing firearms. Even though the receivers are registered as firearms. We’re talking two different uses of the term firearm. So if your friend takes a receiver to a dealer and the dealer assembles it into a firearm. That dealer has now become an unlicensed manufacturer and should be marking them to show they are not made by Bakail or whoever.
Even if I possess a manufacturers license I can not manufacture short barreled rifles or SBS or fully automatic weapons. That requires a seperate license to do that. Title II Class II SOT I’m not up on the correct terminology and didn’t discuss this with ATF except as I mention below.
The person I talked to said they were going to start cracking down on dealers and especially gunsmiths that were actually going beyond repairs. He implied that they would simply make them get the manufacturers license or surrender their present license but also said that the agent had discretion to decide how to handle each case as an individual set of circumstances. I won’t quote his name since I got nothing in writing, (although he said to write and he would provide this in writing). I will say that if he says they are cracking down, then it WILL happen. It’s a long story on how I got to talk with who I did.
I asked if I bought a more than 50 year old weapon and changed the caliber would I be okay as a C&R. I was told, do it once your okay(not kosher but not likely to get more than a don’t do it again) If I did more than one even though I’m not selling them, I needed to then buy them from a dealer as I’m outside the C&R. I then asked if I went ahead and got my dealers license would I be okay to sell them. That’s when I was told that if I’m buying recievers or firearms with the intent to rebuild them regardless of where or how I’m getting the receivers, I was in fact manufacturing. This applies to gunsmiths doing builds on customers receivers. I was told that if you make receivers into firearms you are a manufacturer if you sell them. It doesn’t matter if you buy them from a dealer and do it as joe average or if you are a dealer and do it. When I said I bought a stripped lower and built it into an AR. I was told that really I should never sell it(could be constued as me manufacturing a firearm without a license0. When I said I was going to make it SBR, I was told you know you own that for life. Because now my name is on it saying I built it. It’s okay to do it for yourself. Anyone can make a firearm for yourself. If they see multiple instances of them they will come check if you still have them all. If you sold some of them…you are a manufacturer.
It’s cut and dried. You friends dealer is manufacturing for someone else. He needs the Class 7 manufacturers license. Then he’s good to make semi auto. If he’s doing SBR etc… it is outside of what I asked about but you can read the laws on the ATF website and it is quite clear on this.
Sorry this is so long but I wanted to make it clear. If you want you can write to the NFA branch and they will give you something in writing. They said they were happy to answer written questions in writing.
Thank you very much for taking the time to put all that out there.
I pretty much thought that already. My take is that this guy is getting away with the semantics involved. My opinion is that a firearm is a firearm (has to be registered and can be nonfunctional) while a gun is a gun.
The receiver is the firearm and the gun is the working end result.
The guy is still building a gun, no matter how you look at it. He isn’t authorized to build this type of gun.
I’m pretty wordy and I try hard not to post a long post because most people won’t read it anyway. I’m not an expert on anything but I tend to be the guy that goes to the source to ask. I actually had a longer post before.
