A person enters into a contractual agreement with either another person or a corporation; the details of the agreement are spelled out in the paperwork and a reasonable person knows there is an amount of risk involved with business.
Some people make better deals than others; how is that stealing?
Both systems are attempts by an elite to try to justify theft from the majority to benefit themselves.
If you look at the system we have, you will see that it gains nothing unless it steals it. Just look at the bailouts. That was theft to benefit a minority.
It is stealing because I never entered into an agreement with any of the Wall Street Bankers, yet I get to pay off part of their bills, via the bailouts.
The Bankers steal from the people, by using the force of Government to collect taxes that are then used to fund private bank accounts, and fund large bonuses for certain CEOs.
When the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913 it totally changed the way this country was operated in every way. Now, instead of a Government that works for the people, we now have a Government that works for Corporations.
Ignorance is bliss…this system would fall like a house of cards if America didn’t have so many ignorant people voting against their own self interest due to fear.
Bailing out banks is what if not stealing from taxpayers? Too big to fail is udder bullshit and something only the politicians and ignorant believe in.
By the way, the majority of people who saw their nest egg disappear in 2007-2008 had jack shit to do with real estate and the home lending crisis, and it’s insulting to keep hearing that implied.
Do Microsoft and Apple steal from people? I’m not saying they’re perfect(data mining etc…) but are Steve Jobs and Bill Gates rich because they have stolen from people? Or collectively have the two of them enriched our lives and created far more prosperity than their collective net worth?
Capitalism has existed in every society. Communist China? Capitalist. Soviet Union? Capitalist. Cuba? Capitalist. The difference is what kind of capitalism…is it the kind that we’re attempting to cling to? The kind that allows for freedom and the ability to succeed or fail no matter what your current status is? Or is it controlled by government. Nothing else other than shades between the two extremes will ever exist.
For “another way” to come about you would have to defy human nature and it would require violence like the world has never seen to implement.
This is true…and I don’t think anyone is arguing that the bank bailouts and all that happened during that period was absolute theft and obscene on many levels. But I think most are saying that we have to be careful who we side with. The people in the streets? Please. If you think they understand monetary policy or have a desire to do anything other some some bolshevik rebellion you’re kidding yourself. What we currently have is better than they would give us.
Amen brother. I bet 99.5% of Americans have no idea or probably even a care about the Fed. The Fed is the cancer and we jsut keep doing chemo and radiation therapy without first removing the cancer.
I never said capitalism, I said free market. By definition stealing will benefit the theif if the theif succeeds, no matter what economic system. No system that is developed by humans will be perfect and it will always become corrupt if enough people don’t pay attention, or educate themselves sufficiently to understand how it works. There will always be some with more power and influence, it is how the world works, you have a boss don’t you.
Cuba is capitalist? Um no. My father is from Cuba and he will tell you from firsthand experience just how “capitalist” Cuba is. Now that Fidel is out of the picture (yes I believe he is dead), they have moved SLIGHTLY towards capitalism, but they are a long shot away from where we are today…and WE have moved AWAY from capitalism over the years…
However, I do agree with you that the people in the streets around Wall Street are misguided and want to turn our country into something like Cuba. They think that we need more government “because government knows best”…RIGHT. :rolleyes:
I am in no way defending some of the crooks in Wall Street. There are more problems than you can count in our government, economy, health care system, national security, foreign and domestic policy, and the list goes on. But I can assure you the answer is not bigger government. It basically has to boil down to having consequences for actions, and if those actions lead to a large company or bank failing, then so be it. There has to be consequences for actions for government officials as well…we can’t keep voting in the same people and expect to get different results. If you don’t do the will of the people, then your ass is outta there! Period!
Absolutely they are, and have been. Every country is and always has been. Some definitions mention “private control” but not all and I don’t think it’s adequate.
This is a video of Milton Friedman responding to a question regarding colonialism and slavery, but he also gives a response to a very similar question and gives a very similar answer to mine(with far more authority than I could ever dream of.) http://vimeo.com/5143574
Where’s Andrew Jackson when we need him? Oh yeah, he’s rolling over in his grave! 
I don’t think anyone likes the bailouts that happened, but stealing, come on dude.
The government takes taxes by force? No they don’t, I made more last year than any previous year and paid less in taxes than ever. Sounds like you may have some sour grapes because your tax guy sucks; get a new one. Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance through smart, well thought out dealings, proper structure and using the rules to your advantage to avoid taxes is not only smart business; it’s legal. Stop working for “the man” and start your own business so you can be one of the fat cats; it’s not that difficult, but it does take time and commitment.
There are three options available to everyone.
-
Sit around and bitch about the fat cats and worry about the end of the world as we know it.
-
Study what the fat cats do and copy it to better yourself and keep more of your money.
-
Move to utopia and find a new crisis to bitch about. Yea, I know utopia is perfect, but some folks just aren’t happy unless they have a crisis to howl about.
I’ll take number 2; I have taken number 2 and while I’m not rich I’m not sitting in my bunker worried about the end of the world, JBTs and other things that I have little or no control over. I’m making money for my family and spending it on things we need and/or want.
So you’re trying to tell me that if you have a (hypothetical) scale from 0-10 where Cuba ranks 0 with “privatization of business” and the US ranks 10, you would label both sides of the scale as “Capitalism” and say “hey, they may rank a 0 on the scale, but they are still ‘capitalist’”???
That’s utter horseshit! If you aren’t capitalist, then you’re socialist if you are on the opposite side of the scale like Cuba IS! Don’t try to play semantics here. Lets call a spade a spade.
Lets review some definitions:
Socialism: is an economic system in which the means of production are either state owned or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively; or a political philosophy advocating such a system.
Capitalism: is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for profit, usually in competitive markets.
I think you just got sucked into the bullshit called semantics my friend. There’s always someone out there trying to call something its not.
Actually yes they do. Don’t pay any and see. Everything the government does is at the barrel of a gun. If you don’t pay that speeding ticket, someone with a gun will hook you up, continue to not do, or fight and it continues to go down hill from there. The government is the only organization that is allowed to use force.
Yes, they take your money, and if you have any objections, they will use FORCE to get your money.
Instead of dealing with the problem, you just try to outsmart the teams of legal experts working for the corporate interests that run the Government? You are not helping to solve any issues, and you are part of the problem here if you aren’t willing to go against the flow and speak out against injustice.
What does this have to do with anything? Who I do, or do not work for has nothing to do with this larger problem that is being discussed.
Your reading comprehension is lacking, or you simply don’t understand the real issues here. The issue is not with working for someone else. The issue here is that I don’t like being taxed, and having those taxes go to pay the multi-million dollar “bonus” of some Corporate Executive.
They can have all the bubbly they want. Im partial to Cliquet, but whatevah. I am more concerned about the throngs of faceless t001s chanting their marxist crap. They are revolting against a system that their manifest cites are necessary to create the workers paradise. The 6th plank of communism is a monopoly of capital, well they have it. Every major collapse since the inception of the Fed is at the hands of the assclowns in the Eccles Building. So long as there is a fiat money system and a Congress that disregards Article 1, Section 8, these problems will continue. Susan Sarandon and Micheal Moore showed up, isnt that special. Ms. Sarandon wants to call for an Arab Spring and a Day of Rage. They blab on about the concentration of wealth and the “evil” corporations, can anyone of them name a Hedge Fund Manager, an evil CEO, or Commodities trader? Or is it easier to pin on a random and workable pejorative? The protestors follow the Rules for Radicals mantra, which I do believe calls for the elimination of the middle class. What Alinsky calls the, “have some, want mores”. So, the structure is eliminated and the have nots and middle class are lumped into the same box, making it easier to be dependent upon the Leviathan and impossible to leave. To leave is to be ridiculed. Sound familiar? Its not too far from Wall Street, how about 123rd and Trinity Ave?
We have certainly fallen into quite a quandary. Even though, I think Sen McCain ran a craptastic campaign, at one of the debates he was asked about taxation and wealth, his answer was simple, “I want everyone to be wealthy”. I work hard because poverty sucks. Taking more money from those champagne sippin’ snobs wont improve my life, but Moordor on the Potomac taking more of my money and the Eccles Building manipulating all of it will degrade my life.
Misappropriation of funds! 100% agree…which is why I said earlier that there needs to be consequences for actions.
What is it with this country and the disdain/anger towards the successful? 
I am sure those in that crowd of protesters, if given the opportunity to switch places with those in the balcony, would immediately take all their money and give it away to the poor, the needy and the unfortunate and only keep just enough to feed themselves. :rolleyes:
Right…
I’m sure that every one in that group of protesters takes everything that they make above and beyond the bare essentials needed to survive and gives all their surpluses to those less fortunate?
They just feel jealousy for those more successful than them and want to see “someone” do something about it. They don’t think it is “fair” that others have more than them. They want the “Nanny” to make them “share their toys”.
It’s disgusting.:mad:
There WILL ALWAYS be someone better off than you. There WILL ALWAYS be someone worse off than you as well. The poorest most “disadvantaged” person in modern America is better off than 95% of the rest of the modern world and leaps and bounds ahead of those in previous years. How many of those protesters do you think have a least a 40" flat screen television, 50+ channel cable, a roof over their heads, more food than they can eat and plenty of time for leisure activities (Like taking normal working hours to protest members of Wall Street).
Life for the poor has never been as good as it is today in America and people should do well to remember that sometimes.
And I don’t want to hear about the “Good ole Days”. I had parents that lived during that time period. While it might have been good for the Cleavers, it wasn’t that great in rural South.
Count your blessings and work towards improving yourself, don’t waste it focusing on what others have that you do not. There are lots of people, even in America, that would love just to be able to walk down the street much less waste it “protesting”.
Did you read the rest of what I wrote? They take what you give them, unless you have a crappy tax consultant who can’t figure out a way to keep more of your money; if that the case then they take everything they want. Part of working and living here is paying taxes; part of the tax game is figuring out how to pay less. If you can use the rules to get your tax burden to zero they don’t do a thing.
Maybe I’m just naive, but I’ve never had the IRS or anyone else bust into my home or business. I’ve never been audited; my only interaction with the IRS has been filing my forms and going to their local office to get copies of previous returns. I know a few people who haven’t filed a return in over a decade and are still running their businesses, I wouldn’t do that, but it doesn’t seem to affect them. The cost/benefit just isn’t there for me. It’s much more interesting to play within the system and figure out how to make it work for your best interest rather than someone else.
Delta,
My reading comprehension is just fine. Nobody likes paying taxes. In 1862 when we got our first income tax law I’m sure nobody liked it either, but it’s the way it is and you can protest as much as you like it’s not going to change the way the world works. I suggest figuring out how the real world works instead of wishing you lived some fantasy land where the unicorns shit skittles.
Nothing good can come from the massive concentration and consolidation of wealth and power we’ve seen in the last 20 years.
Yes they do. Try not paying your taxes and see what happens.
Taxes (especially income tax) are outright theft. The problem that we have now is that we do not live in a free market, capitalist society. We live in a society in which idiots vote in power hungry retards that steal from hard working people to fund things like the bailouts, cash for clunkers, and all other government programs. If we didn’t allow this, we wouldn’t have all the problems we have now.
If governments quit backing banks, they would either have to quit gambling so much with their money or they would go out of business and be replaced by banks that don’t do stupid things with their money. A bank should be no different than any other business; sometimes they fail and it is the customers job to do their research and put their money in the right establishment. There should never be any guarantee that the bank won’t fail and lose all its money (unless someone opens one up that does nothing but sit on the money) because sometimes, no matter how small the risk is, bad things happen. If you don’t like that then start storing your money under your mattress.
Everyone who complains about how they lost money that the invested needs to come back down to reality. If you invest in something, there is at least a small chance that it will fail and you will lose all of that money. When that happens it isn’t anyone stealing from you, it is business as usual (except the rare cases in which theft is actually occurring through a breach of contract which is an entirely different subject). I seriously doubt that anyone here or anywhere else for that matter had a contract with the people that they invested with that said “We guarantee that you will make money and that you will never lose a dime on this investment.”
Wake up and start attacking the actual source of all of our problems. It isn’t big business, it is big government.
Beating, hanging, and killing.